Re: Friday Facts #304 - Small bugs; Big changes
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:21 am
ScrewMisterDoctor wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:37 amDon't you know, this is a perfectly balanced equation :
30 C2H4 + 30 H2O => 2 S
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ScrewMisterDoctor wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:37 amDon't you know, this is a perfectly balanced equation :
30 C2H4 + 30 H2O => 2 S
Indeed I thought your post was quite clear, and I take completelacika2000 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:27 pmLet's just make sure I am not promoting something I did not want to: my idea was that we make sulfur from heavy oil, or we make lubricants from heavy oil, not sulfur and lubricants at the same time
Adamo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:51 pmSolid fuel is very useful. Coal should be saved for products you need later, like plastic and explosives. Notice solid fuel has, what, about 4 times as much energy as coal does, right? Whereas you need the coal to make bulk products. So I'll tell you what I tell any of the new players on my network: you're being a bit silly if you're still burning that coal for power.dzaima wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:32 pmOk, new players might find a use for it, but hoping people make something potentially useless & easily dismissable just because they're forced to spend a resource isn't good game design. I usually have enough coal to last me until I get solars & electric furnaces (& nuclear fuel for trains further on) for me to not need to bother, and many might feel the same, forgetting the recipe even exists. And replacing coal usage with solid fuel (without breaking things that need just coal) is another bump in the oil setup process that one would need to do before being able to actually get anything out of it.
It's not that simple - you have to compare the costs for 1 unit of coal and 1 unit of solid fuel - required buildings, logistics, energy and pollution... and the impact from pollution on biter attacks also heavily depends on the respective locations of pollution emitters (and absorbers) !
Whether you're bottlenecked on oil or coal will depend a lot on what game settings you picked, and also on random chance.Omnifarious wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:41 pmAs a random aside, the only time I've used coal liquifaction is when I had a coal patch near a uranium patch and I decided I didn't want to ship sulfuric acid to the uranium patch. So I set up a tiny oil chain that just produce sulfuric acid and nothing else (except, of course, for siphoning off just enough heavy oil to keep the process moving).dzaima wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:16 pm(this is not to say I completely agree with the change (well, I mostly do), and I may be biased because I've never used coal liquefaction and don't really care about getting solid fuel until it's strictly required, and always struggled with my base dying when light & heavy oil backed up since it has exactly 0 use to me before blue science)
You might not have access to a sufficient flow of it though... it might be much farther than coal, or be blocked by an annoying/prohibitive amount of biter nests...
What kind of game settings do you use ?!?Serenity wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:10 pmI'm by no means a fast player. But I was always fine with doing maybe 80-160 steam engines running on coal. That's 72-144MW. And then putting done some solar. I keep using steel furnaces for a long time. So I don't have excessive power needs from electric smelters.
Maybe it's still residual PTSD from my first game where using solid fuel sucked down all my oil. But that was before the oil rebalance. Now it's a lot more plentiful.
Maybe not having much coal would be different, but I don't play with super low resources. I rather have substantial patches far apart
Well, regular ores clearly show the amount, and individual tiles getting depleted...dzaima wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:22 pmNow that I think of it, I don't think the game mentions anywhere that crude oil is infinite though? I wouldn't be surprised if many assumed oil might deplete faster than ores, whereas it's quite the opposite. Lots of communication issues around oil (ha ha ha..)
That's unworkable, as modular armor is way later...Katamechanic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:14 pmConstruction Drones,
[...]
I would make them locked to a personal robo(drono?)port of maybe just 10 (15, 20?), and not include any building ports or provider/requester chests, so you can't automate building unless you are directly supervising it.
This is unworkable too, as long as robot frames need sulfur and lubricant. (Remember how defender robots were almost useless, arriving way too late ?)Katamechanic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:14 pmYou could also rework so these early drones match the building of con bots (Robotic frame + 2 EC) as the first progression after robotics, and then beef up con bots with Robot Frame + Advanced Circuits + Green Wire and Log bots with RF + 2 AC + Red Wire.
You totally missed my point. I was arguing that there is no major resource sink for light & heavy oil. You need tons and tons of copper. Also, not using copper doesn't stop your ability to make more iron.n8crafter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:33 pmwhile we're at it, remove copper and make everything from ironvampiricdust wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:41 am
In all honestly, you should get rid of light and heavy oil, it serves no purpose other than to make things complicated for the sake of being complicated.
Just have everything made from petroleum and be done with it, let advance oil processing just make more petroleum per crude oil. Why complicate this so much?
copper only serves to make things complicated for the sake of being complicated
the point of oil processing having multiple outputs is to match real-world chemical processes, in addition to providing a logistical challenge to the player. I personally feel like this suggestion aims to remove logistics from a game involving logistics as a core component.
There is. You crack the excess to petroleum. (Now how to better communicate that to new players is another matter).vampiricdust wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:40 amHaving nearly useless products that have only solid fuel and lubricant, which are not used to the same degree as PG is used. There needs to be a more reasonable way for those products to be consumed.