Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

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xtertristl
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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by xtertristl » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:01 am

Avezo wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:09 pm
Also, it seems spitters don't have eyes? It's weird, they should see where they want to shoot.
There are other methods of detecting movement sonar, ground vibrations etc. I'd also love to see a melee worm like the Boppit worm that grabs you and pulls you in.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by 5thHorseman » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:24 am

emp_zealoth wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:58 am
So when is 0.17 coming?
No update in the FFF and January is pretty much done :(
They said it probably wouldn't come out this month in some FFF over the past couple weeks. So your best chance is some time in the next 4-5 weeks.

EDIT: Found it. Search this FFF for "February"

https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-277
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by fur_and_whiskers » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:30 am

5thHorseman wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:24 am
emp_zealoth wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:58 am
So when is 0.17 coming?
No update in the FFF and January is pretty much done :(
They said it probably wouldn't come out this month in some FFF over the past couple weeks. So your best chance is some time in the next 4-5 weeks.
Friday Facts #278
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-278
Looking over what is left to be done, It is clear to me that the release won't be ready in January.
When we are ready to release 0.17, its launch definitely won't be a surprise. We will announce the exact date in the FFF at least the week before.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by golfmiketango » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:13 am

Pretty bugs! But those worms look like uncircumcised penises. I figure you should make them less smooth, or finish the job and give them a couple of furry stomach sacs at ground-level :mrgreen:

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by AndrewIRL » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:31 am

FFF#279 wrote:With temporary station support, what I do is:
  1. Enter the locomotive and find the place where I want to go directly in the map preview.
  2. Ctrl+Click nearest rail/station.
That's close but not quite what I want to do:
  1. Find the place (not necessarily rail) where I want to go directly in the map preview and Ctrl+Click it.
Automatic actions:
  • Character walks/drives to nearest train line
  • Train is routed to that location
  • Character is loaded onto train
  • Train drives to nearest rail to clicked point
  • Character walks/drives to clicked point
If I am in a train and click on a rail then it should behave as originally laid out. If I'm not in train and don't click a rail then it needs to take additional steps to get me to a train and then to the location.

Train selection: empty, small, nearby or already going that way should be chosen. Loco in inventory would be the nearest/smallest if available. Things used from inventory (locos/cars) should go back in inventory after use. If a train is not sensible for my destination then it should skip the train part and simply walk/drive the entire way.

The competing mode of transport is helicopter which allows travel from any location to any other location. The only downside is remembering where you left it.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by Saevon » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:56 am

The problem with "Temporary Trains" is that clicking on the map is hard... when you have a major hub (3+ unloading stations, and a few personal drop off stations) you don't want to accidentally send a random train into the unloading station. (Not all trains will have locked cargo inventory, and neither will all unloaders...)

I'd suggest a flag you can choose for a station "Personal Station" or something similar (enabled by default) which allows you to see (and select) it on the map as a "temporary target". Then if you make a base, you can turn off accidental player travel, but new players start with the new feature enabled on all stations.

Secondly, this only covers the "basic travel" part of calling in Personal Trains, there are 2 other ways I end up using them.
1) Travelling to a random point, when you're setting up new mines or similar, it would be good to be able to (shift-click?) to order a train to a specific spot for drop off
2) I often have a set of trains with materials, (different routes with different parts), and I'd put down a station to call them in. However if something urgent comes up those trains are now stuck somewhere (cause I forgot to take the station down)... Being able to call in a specific train to your location would be good too.

Note: Does the train wait for you to get out before it leaves? that way I can tell it to go far away, and not have to catch the exact moment it arrives (jumping out).. Often times I'll end up busy planning on the map and miss my stop

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by Sad_Brother » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:05 pm

AndrewIRL wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:31 am
FFF#279 wrote:With temporary station support, what I do is:
  1. Enter the locomotive and find the place where I want to go directly in the map preview.
  2. Ctrl+Click nearest rail/station.
That's close but not quite what I want to do:
  1. Find the place (not necessarily rail) where I want to go directly in the map preview and Ctrl+Click it.
Automatic actions:
  • Character walks/drives to nearest train line
  • Train is routed to that location
  • Character is loaded onto train
  • Train drives to nearest rail to clicked point
  • Character walks/drives to clicked point
If I am in a train and click on a rail then it should behave as originally laid out. If I'm not in train and don't click a rail then it needs to take additional steps to get me to a train and then to the location.
...
And if you have not build railway you should automatically dig ores and build needed line :D

To be fair there is an interesting idea here:

Ctrl+Click to move at the designated point.
  • If you are in the train, "Train drives to nearest rail to clicked point".
  • If you are in Car, use it but avoid trees.
  • If you are in Tank ignore trees and move to nearest point.
  • If you are not in vehicle, Character run to clicked point, using path-finding.
  • If you use other vehicle like Helicopter, no doubt modders would be glad to add proper behaviour.
This will help navigate in nature or artificial jungles. Help with Car/Tank movement alignment. Help Player to concentrate on the main task - to build the Base.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by emp_zealoth » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:57 pm

fur_and_whiskers wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:30 am
5thHorseman wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:24 am
emp_zealoth wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:58 am
So when is 0.17 coming?
No update in the FFF and January is pretty much done :(
They said it probably wouldn't come out this month in some FFF over the past couple weeks. So your best chance is some time in the next 4-5 weeks.
Friday Facts #278
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-278
Looking over what is left to be done, It is clear to me that the release won't be ready in January.
When we are ready to release 0.17, its launch definitely won't be a surprise. We will announce the exact date in the FFF at least the week before.
Sigh, my bad...I guess...
I'd rather have preffered to have the info be slightly more prominent though :<

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by 5thHorseman » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:02 pm

emp_zealoth wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:57 pm
Sigh, my bad...I guess...
I'd rather have preffered to have the info be slightly more prominent though :<
I've found that unless you are actually running the software and seeing the new version number on your screen, assume anything by the developers is an estimate that can easily be off by thousands of percentage points.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by thelordodin » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:12 pm

GUI Progress bar of train condition should change color when fullfilled or else you won't see if its 8000 plates or 7999 plates both will render "Almost all is full". I mean color green if condition is fullfilled and color blue if it's in progress.
This would also make it more consistent for Circuit condition case since it just won't have "blue" phase, only green.

Is the map to the right zoomable? scrollable?
If not clicking for temporary station will bring frustration (my station is just 10 pixels out of screen... now I should pick station name ... ...)

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by FasterJump » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:17 pm

I'm still not convinced about the new texture of enemies. But nests are definitely too flat.

Otherwise, I support the checkpoint suggestion. Or any mechanic that prevents trains to stockpile when trying to reach the same station while others identical stations are free.

I agree about making fulfilled conditions looking different. Maybe a shiny white border effect?

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by thelordodin » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:23 pm

Sad_Brother wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:05 pm
To be fair there is an interesting idea here:

Ctrl+Click to move at the designated point.
  • If you are in the train, "Train drives to nearest rail to clicked point".
  • If you are in Car, use it but avoid trees.
  • If you are in Tank ignore trees and move to nearest point.
  • If you are not in vehicle, Character run to clicked point, using path-finding.
  • If you use other vehicle like Helicopter, no doubt modders would be glad to add proper behaviour.
This will help navigate in nature or artificial jungles. Help with Car/Tank movement alignment. Help Player to concentrate on the main task - to build the Base.
+1 !!!

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by HalfPastZulu » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:34 pm

Love the GUI improvements... Honestly, like the time put into the GUI.

The new bugs look a little Starship Trooper isk... to me. But it's hard to judge from a .gif . I will just have to play with them before I know if I like them or not. I really love the new details in the graphics and animations though. Hard to know if you like the way they interact when your not interacting with them.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by AndrewIRL » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:09 pm

Sad_Brother wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:05 pm
Ctrl+Click to move at the designated point.
  • If you are in the train, "Train drives to nearest rail to clicked point".
  • If you are in Car, use it but avoid trees.
  • If you are in Tank ignore trees and move to nearest point.
  • If you are not in vehicle, Character run to clicked point, using path-finding.
  • If you use other vehicle like Helicopter, no doubt modders would be glad to add proper behaviour.
The helicopter mod already does "path finding" in that it flies in straight lines and ignores all terrain so there's nothing to add.

Change that to:
[*]If you are not in vehicle, pick the best mode of transport available (including rail), using path-finding and travel there including using vehicles in inventory.

Then we are back to my original suggestion. I've already automated mining ore and manufacturing rail. I've also automated my train schedule and I could potentially automate the laying of rails but I haven't done that yet.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by Hannu » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:23 pm

I do not usually appreciate fine graphics very much but I have to say that new enemies look great. I would like to get them in terrarium instead of killing them (I like arthropods, like insects, spiders and centipedes).

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by factoriouzr » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:57 pm

AlexAegis wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:15 pm
factoriouzr wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:14 pm
This is all great. Can't wait for 0.17 (I hope it won't be delayed yet again).

The train gui looks good and I love the feature to send a train to any track on the map and any stop, however this feature is still missing some key improvements/polish:
+it would be great to designate any train as a personal train (eg. via a checkbox in it's GUI that's player based. Ie. in a multiplayer game, each player can mark as many trains as they want as their own personal trains). See next point on how this will be useful.
+the ability (with a button click in the GUI (say at the top left)) to call a personal train to the closest track or stop to where the player is currently standing (ie. the game finds the closest track to where the player is)

Thanks
Fear not my friend, as I have the perfect solution! My PAX System! Completely modular (but you have to connect the stations with green wire) And if configured well, it can work as a metro, always running from station to station, or just stop where it is. It comes to you if you are triggering the gates (and stays there) etc etc, more detail in the blueprint page (and also a video)

Also I'm a bit salty because I've literally worked on this many hours and then they add this new feature :lol: But I'm still gonna use this personal metro system as it's really easy to use.
Thanks my friend. However I would still prefer the solution I proposed already built into the base game. Nice blueprint though, and thanks for sharing.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by factoriouzr » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:07 pm

Nova wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:11 am
Oh, something important: There should be a bigger difference between nearly fulfilled and fully fulfilled wait condition. The few pixels difference now could easily be missed and it would take a closer eye to notice it - how about making the partially filled condition yellow and the complete condition green? :)
I agree :)

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by Sad_Brother » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:46 pm

AndrewIRL wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:09 pm
Sad_Brother wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:05 pm
Ctrl+Click to move at the designated point.
  • If you are in the train, "Train drives to nearest rail to clicked point".
  • If you are in Car, use it but avoid trees.
  • If you are in Tank ignore trees and move to nearest point.
  • If you are not in vehicle, Character run to clicked point, using path-finding.
  • If you use other vehicle like Helicopter, no doubt modders would be glad to add proper behaviour.
The helicopter mod already does "path finding" in that it flies in straight lines and ignores all terrain so there's nothing to add.

Change that to:
[*]If you are not in vehicle, pick the best mode of transport available (including rail), using path-finding and travel there including using vehicles in inventory.

Then we are back to my original suggestion. I've already automated mining ore and manufacturing rail. I've also automated my train schedule and I could potentially automate the laying of rails but I haven't done that yet.
Helicopter can have "goto" command even if I did not see it. I mentioned it as a one of many vehicle mods.
"[*]If you are not in vehicle, pick the best mode of transport available" is bad idea because:
  • Too many options to account, too many ways to compare, too many transport to use
  • Each transport have own "drawback" like traffic interference for trains or tree breaking for tanks
  • Auto changing transport could left your luggage behind
  • Modded transport can use unusual travel time formula or even cost/time ratio
Is it hard for you to choose your transport yourself? It seems you always have Helicopter ready and it would be the best for you.

If you automated so much, would it better for you to play ZRPG? ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by aRatNamedSammy » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:32 am

nice FFF... havent played recently, and im thinking about one thing.. will it be possible for loco to add a condition for refueling? i could really like to make a proper refueling stop
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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by PrimeFactorio » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:21 am

  • Item count - Here it starts to be tricky. If the comparator is > (greater than) or ≥(greater or equal than), we just calculate the amount of that item and divide it by the goal. If the comparator is anything else, I can't show a progress. I know how far I'm from the goal, but I don't know what to compare it to, so in this case, we just show either not completed at all, or fully completed.
  • Fluid condition - Basically the same as Item count.
Could the amount of an item be stored when the UI is initially opened, then you could use ( 1 - ( currentcount - goal ) / ( startingcount - goal ) ) or, less clearly, (( startingcount - currentcount ) / ( startingcount - goal ). It obviously wouldn't show a true progress percentage but it'd provide enough information to help people see if it's making proper progress. Though you might have to consider a situation of it heading in the wrong direction and going over 100%.

Ideally, I'd have the train keep track of how much it started with (so you could get a true percentage progress) but I figure that would require recoding a section of how trains work and that would be silly. However, I would think all of these variables would be possible and relatively easy to implement in the UI code like the rest of the progress bars.

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