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Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:30 pm
by Klonan

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:43 pm
by rldml
Hello there,

what does the green and the blue column in the demo gif exactly means? And will there be an option to show these columns to get an easy way to identify bottlenecks and something like that?

Greetings, Ronny

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:54 pm
by Dominik
rldml wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:43 pm
what does the green and the blue column in the demo gif exactly means? And will there be an option to show these columns to get an easy way to identify bottlenecks and something like that?
It is the volume and speed - numbers you can find in the tooltip, but visible all at once this way. It is already available - go to debug settings ingame (f4) and check show-fluid-box-fluid-info.

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:55 pm
by Lubricus
rldml wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:43 pm
Hello there,

what does the green and the blue column in the demo gif exactly means? And will there be an option to show these columns to get an easy way to identify bottlenecks and something like that?

Greetings, Ronny
It's in the debug options F4. And represent's amount and flow of fluids.

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:56 pm
by Lubricus
I am happy that the new fluid mechanics works and have better performance :-)

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:00 pm
by PacifyerGrey
Awesome job guys!
I am glad to see TheYeast's model implemented in the game as I did consider it being the most appropriate during discussion.

But more to that, we can once more witness the greatness of Wube devs. I can not name any other dev team which would take so much from community and implement it in the game. This is totally outstanding example for all those rotten AAA teams on the market!

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:01 pm
by TreefrogGreaken
Looking good!

That flow rate info, is that available to us modders? I can't see it in the preview on the Factorio API, unless im being blind.

My mod has to guess when offshore pumps are active which I get from calculating the flowrate of water from the Flow Statistics. Having the flow rate available for offshore pumps would be great as i then know exactly when offshore pumps are active. I've not been able to do this before as when fluidboxes max out I can't diretly calcuate the flow rate as the amount would always be 0. At least thats what I remember from my dealings with it awhile ago.

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:03 pm
by Ekevoo
Nice work! I'm really excited about playing the new version! :D

Image
My first thought: oh nice that's convenient
My second thought: wait we now could safely run surface pipes side by side... we could press the rotate key to choose or something!

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:11 pm
by featherwinglove
FFF#274 wrote: Once an empty fluid system (connected network of fluidboxes - pipes, crafting machines etc.) touches either a fluid or a fluid filter, the system is locked onto that fluid. It is then not possible to connect it to another system with a different fluid. There are quite a few actions which can result in merging systems, so each needed to be checked:

Setting a recipe with a fluid input/output
I'd like to know if the attempt to do this will jam the machine so the recipe can't be set, or will it set the recipe, but the fluid net will not connect to it? It's easy to imagine the latter with just the pipe cover not appearing on the machine and connecting it.

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:15 pm
by Klonan
featherwinglove wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:11 pm
FFF#274 wrote: Once an empty fluid system (connected network of fluidboxes - pipes, crafting machines etc.) touches either a fluid or a fluid filter, the system is locked onto that fluid. It is then not possible to connect it to another system with a different fluid. There are quite a few actions which can result in merging systems, so each needed to be checked:

Setting a recipe with a fluid input/output
I'd like to know if the attempt to do this will jam the machine so the recipe can't be set, or will it set the recipe, but the fluid net will not connect to it? It's easy to imagine the latter with just the pipe cover not appearing on the machine and connecting it.
You won't be able to set the recipe at all

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:16 pm
by akmotu
The new fluid system looks great!

I must admit, I'm a little scared about the loss of the your macOS devs. I hope you find someone. If you don't, what does this mean for people like me who play Factorio on mac? Could the game go forward into 0.17 and beyond sans mac support? Or will the game not push forward without mac support?

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:18 pm
by Klonan
akmotu wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:16 pm
The new fluid system looks great!

I must admit, I'm a little scared about the loss of the your macOS devs. I hope you find someone. If you don't, what does this mean for people like me who play Factorio on mac? Could the game go forward into 0.17 and beyond sans mac support? Or will the game not push forward without mac support?
We have 2 developers who are familiar enough with the OS to maintain the build process and compatibility, but if any complex issues arise, it may be more difficult to fix them in an effective manner

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:18 pm
by rldml
Dominik wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:54 pm
It is the volume and speed - numbers you can find in the tooltip, but visible all at once this way. It is already available - go to debug settings ingame (f4) and check show-fluid-box-fluid-info.
Thx to you and Lubricus for this (nice) info :)

@Wube: You're doing a great job!

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:40 pm
by Mday
Cool update, guys!

Oh yeah, you guys definately have to add a scorpion now. As a background entity, creatable item, or a...err... tank or something.

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:48 pm
by Optera
Good luck going against Nier Automata in Most fun with a Machine.

I see a fluid source in these pictures, is that a hidden entity from 0.17 or does it already exist in 0.16?

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:50 pm
by featherwinglove
Klonan wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:15 pm
featherwinglove wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:11 pm
FFF#274 wrote: Once an empty fluid system (connected network of fluidboxes - pipes, crafting machines etc.) touches either a fluid or a fluid filter, the system is locked onto that fluid. It is then not possible to connect it to another system with a different fluid. There are quite a few actions which can result in merging systems, so each needed to be checked:

Setting a recipe with a fluid input/output
I'd like to know if the attempt to do this will jam the machine so the recipe can't be set, or will it set the recipe, but the fluid net will not connect to it? It's easy to imagine the latter with just the pipe cover not appearing on the machine and connecting it.
You won't be able to set the recipe at all
That seems like it'll cause problems: I'm thinking that if I can't set the recipe at all, what would happen if I were to rotate the machine, set the recipe while it's not connected, and then rotate the machine to attempt the connection? Will the game crash?

One of the setups I had come to imagine was a workshop machine (AM2 or similar) with three fluid interfaces in different directions, and one item interface direction in the fourth direction. If the recipe is not set, the fluid interface will be visible in absolutely no manner, and it becomes frustrating guesswork to figure out how to rotate the machine before setting the recipe. I can also see similar frustration if someone plunks down a chemical plant or refinery and the pipes leading up to or from it are backwards. Not being able to set the recipe would make it far harder to troubleshoot such a problem than it currently is - at least for inputs. A new player might even mistake this behaviour for a game breaking glitch and throw Factorio out in frustration.

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:50 pm
by AcolyteOfRocket
Mday wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:40 pm
Cool update, guys!

Oh yeah, you guys definately have to add a scorpion now. As a background entity, creatable item, or a...err... tank or something.
Surely it should be a boss biter...

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:53 pm
by Dominik
featherwinglove wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:50 pm
Klonan wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:15 pm
featherwinglove wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:11 pm
FFF#274 wrote: Once an empty fluid system (connected network of fluidboxes - pipes, crafting machines etc.) touches either a fluid or a fluid filter, the system is locked onto that fluid. It is then not possible to connect it to another system with a different fluid. There are quite a few actions which can result in merging systems, so each needed to be checked:

Setting a recipe with a fluid input/output
I'd like to know if the attempt to do this will jam the machine so the recipe can't be set, or will it set the recipe, but the fluid net will not connect to it? It's easy to imagine the latter with just the pipe cover not appearing on the machine and connecting it.
You won't be able to set the recipe at all
That seems like it'll cause problems: I'm thinking that if I can't set the recipe at all, what would happen if I were to rotate the machine, set the recipe while it's not connected, and then rotate the machine to attempt the connection? Will the game crash?

One of the setups I had come to imagine was a workshop machine (AM2 or similar) with three fluid interfaces in different directions, and one item interface direction in the fourth direction. If the recipe is not set, the fluid interface will be visible in absolutely no manner, and it becomes frustrating guesswork to figure out how to rotate the machine before setting the recipe. I can also see similar frustration if someone plunks down a chemical plant or refinery and the pipes leading up to or from it are backwards. Not being able to set the recipe would make it far harder to troubleshoot such a problem than it currently is - at least for inputs. A new player might even mistake this behaviour for a game breaking glitch and throw Factorio out in frustration.
You would not be able to rotate it back. Any such action attempt will give you a warning about the fluid mixing, so anyone should be able to figure it out. Even if it ends up confusing for somebody, it is still less confusing then the result would be previously.

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:03 pm
by King Karlos
So about the Keys.... It would be better to buy your key since Steam takes a 30% share from that right ?

Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:17 pm
by Psyramics
Will flow rate be available to the circuit network?