Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

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Antaios
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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by Antaios » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:18 pm

Given the waves and oscillations, how much of a PITA is it still going to be to completely empty a pipe network (say, in case you got the wrong liquid into it, or want to re-purpose a long line), especially if it's large or complex?

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by Klonan » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:34 pm

King Karlos wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:03 pm
So about the Keys.... It would be better to buy your key since Steam takes a 30% share from that right ?
No, Steam does not take a cut from sales outside of the Steam store

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by Dominik » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:46 pm

Psyramics wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:17 pm
Will flow rate be available to the circuit network?
I don't know as I didn't get to this part yet and don't know what it entails. But I suppose why not :)

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by Dominik » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:47 pm

Antaios wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:18 pm
Given the waves and oscillations, how much of a PITA is it still going to be to completely empty a pipe network (say, in case you got the wrong liquid into it, or want to re-purpose a long line), especially if it's large or complex?
There is now a mechanism that will empty the system if the fluid level goes below some level (0.05 unit I think), so it can take some time but quite realistic time.

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by WIZ4 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:13 pm

Dominik wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:53 pm
featherwinglove wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:50 pm
Klonan wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:15 pm
featherwinglove wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:11 pm
FFF#274 wrote: Once an empty fluid system (connected network of fluidboxes - pipes, crafting machines etc.) touches either a fluid or a fluid filter, the system is locked onto that fluid. It is then not possible to connect it to another system with a different fluid. There are quite a few actions which can result in merging systems, so each needed to be checked:

Setting a recipe with a fluid input/output
I'd like to know if the attempt to do this will jam the machine so the recipe can't be set, or will it set the recipe, but the fluid net will not connect to it? It's easy to imagine the latter with just the pipe cover not appearing on the machine and connecting it.
You won't be able to set the recipe at all
That seems like it'll cause problems: I'm thinking that if I can't set the recipe at all, what would happen if I were to rotate the machine, set the recipe while it's not connected, and then rotate the machine to attempt the connection? Will the game crash?

One of the setups I had come to imagine was a workshop machine (AM2 or similar) with three fluid interfaces in different directions, and one item interface direction in the fourth direction. If the recipe is not set, the fluid interface will be visible in absolutely no manner, and it becomes frustrating guesswork to figure out how to rotate the machine before setting the recipe. I can also see similar frustration if someone plunks down a chemical plant or refinery and the pipes leading up to or from it are backwards. Not being able to set the recipe would make it far harder to troubleshoot such a problem than it currently is - at least for inputs. A new player might even mistake this behaviour for a game breaking glitch and throw Factorio out in frustration.
You would not be able to rotate it back. Any such action attempt will give you a warning about the fluid mixing, so anyone should be able to figure it out. Even if it ends up confusing for somebody, it is still less confusing then the result would be previously.
What about the use of a warning that says the liquid cannot be drained?
Something like that
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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by Oktokolo » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:22 pm

Will we be able to build (initially empty) pipes for different liquids side by side without having to leave a one-tile gap between them and can we prevent them from merging in case one of them ever gets empty?

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by WIZ4 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:30 pm

Scorpiontron Confirmed!
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My native language is russian. Sorry if my messages are difficult to read.

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by Koub » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:38 pm

WIZ4 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:30 pm
Scorpiontron Confirmed!
Scorpiontron.jpg
Epic photoshop skillz mate :mrgreen:
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by ske » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:59 pm

Where can I get the scorpy DLC?

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by arrow in my gluteus » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:17 pm

what about fluid wagons? How do pumps know in advance what kind of liquid trains will have when they stop?

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by beiju » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:27 pm

Klonan wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:15 pm
featherwinglove wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:11 pm
FFF#274 wrote: Once an empty fluid system (connected network of fluidboxes - pipes, crafting machines etc.) touches either a fluid or a fluid filter, the system is locked onto that fluid. It is then not possible to connect it to another system with a different fluid. There are quite a few actions which can result in merging systems, so each needed to be checked:

Setting a recipe with a fluid input/output
I'd like to know if the attempt to do this will jam the machine so the recipe can't be set, or will it set the recipe, but the fluid net will not connect to it? It's easy to imagine the latter with just the pipe cover not appearing on the machine and connecting it.
You won't be able to set the recipe at all
This is great for machine outputs, but seems like a problem if it’s filtered by inputs too. I have a lot of instances where a pipe connects to an input of the “wrong” fluid type and things currently work fine because the machine doesn’t accept the input. I provide the right fluid in a different pipe connection. It happens a lot in modded games, but even in vanilla people do this a lot when they set up the water input for oil refineries before having advanced oil required.

I suggest only considering output (and in-out) fluid filters for locking pipes. Connections to input filters of the wrong type would be allowed but wouldn’t transfer fluid, like the current behavior. It sounds like it would have the same benefits but not prevent the setups that the system you describe would.

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by pleegwat » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:34 pm

arrow in my gluteus wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:17 pm
what about fluid wagons? How do pumps know in advance what kind of liquid trains will have when they stop?
I expect the pumps won't connect if there's a mismatch.

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by arrow in my gluteus » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:40 pm

pleegwat wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:34 pm
arrow in my gluteus wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:17 pm
what about fluid wagons? How do pumps know in advance what kind of liquid trains will have when they stop?
I expect the pumps won't connect if there's a mismatch.
does this mean we can still create mixed fluid systems by using trains as intermediates?

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by Faark » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:20 pm

arrow in my gluteus wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:40 pm
does this mean we can still create mixed fluid systems by using trains as intermediates?
I'd hope pumps can act as some kind of separation anyway, to also let a logic network determine the content of the fluid network.

In general disabling entities that would connect two fluid networks seems better than preventing it to exist in the first place. If I'd want to rotate a factory 180° with 90° having a different pipe... does that mean i cannot rotate? Annoying. Is the recipe reset? Three extra clicks. Temporarily disabled? More complicated game code, i guess...

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by Dry Hairy Tree » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:16 pm

Who cares about the silly liquids :D

Now you HAVE TO add a Neobuthus scorpion to the game. A badass that associates with deserts.

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by darkfrei » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:28 pm

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by Selvek » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:40 pm

Can you give us a bit more info on how placing pipes will work with the new anti-mixing logic? Can you confirm or deny that this will allow running parallel pipes without them accidentally intersecting? I could see this being a problem potentially (esp in blueprints) if pipe connection order is dependent on placement order though...

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by Jap2.0 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:51 pm

Did anyone else notice that "iOS experience" is a plus on the MacOS job page?
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by urza99814 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:53 pm

Yeah, how exactly does the fluid mixing logic affect train stops?

Does this make it easier to build a multi-fluid train stop -- because only the pumps connecting to the same fluid type will connect to the train? Or does it make it impossible, because the train wouldn't connect at all if one of the pumps is the wrong fluid type? And is the maximum number of pumps per train stop now going to be per fluid type, or is it still overall?

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Re: Friday Facts #274 - New fluid system 2

Post by 5thHorseman » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:13 pm

I don't know what you guys screwed up, but I'm noticing a distinct lack of complaints in the replies so it must be something HUGE.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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