Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by Light » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:59 pm

psihius wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:25 pm
Someone send them a bag of non-dick shaped candy! :)
No!
They shall receive dick candy until 0.17 is released... or simply because they brought out the OCD in everyone and it won't stop.

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by POPISowyNumer » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:17 pm

Tomik wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:58 am
There is a very easy solution: Make special Loading and Unloading structures specifically for train wagons (like in Real Life) that can only use Belt Loader/Unloader to get stuff in or out of wagons and disable the ability of inserters to pull things directly out of wagons.

Done!
Yeah, but this requires them to not only make two classes of inventory entities, but also two new structures (hopper and belt-loader).
If they won't do that, the cargo wagons will make belt based busses inferior, and should inserters prove more ups friendly than belts, then also completely obsolete.

And then some devs have the gall to call bots op.
No wonder, if you gimp the belts so hard...

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by mrvn » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:04 am

Trebor wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:04 pm
Fuel should be treated like any other item in the blueprint. However much is in the engine is the amount blueprinted. If the blueprint was created with coal and you want rocket fuel you use the upgrade planner.
But then you go from inserting 50 coal to 50 nuclear fuel. That won't fit.

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by Tomik » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:38 am

POPISowyNumer wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:17 pm
Tomik wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:58 am
There is a very easy solution: Make special Loading and Unloading structures specifically for train wagons (like in Real Life) that can only use Belt Loader/Unloader to get stuff in or out of wagons and disable the ability of inserters to pull things directly out of wagons.

Done!
Yeah, but this requires them to not only make two classes of inventory entities, but also two new structures (hopper and belt-loader).
If they won't do that, the cargo wagons will make belt based busses inferior, and should inserters prove more ups friendly than belts, then also completely obsolete.

And then some devs have the gall to call bots op.
No wonder, if you gimp the belts so hard...
Belt loaders are already in the base game|s code, dude. They do not have sprites yet. Only the Loader Hopper and the Unloader Hopper aren't.
Image

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by mexmer » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:58 pm

i kinda like this blueprinting with train, now i just need to not forget to leave bit of fuel in invetory, or it will stay at blueprinted station forever :D

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by bobucles » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:28 pm

But will all vehicles be allowed in blueprints? Asking for a tank chest build.

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by mexmer » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:31 am

bobucles wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:28 pm
But will all vehicles be allowed in blueprints? Asking for a tank chest build.
you want to have tank imprinted on your chest? :D

is not that for t-shirt section?

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by Lubricus » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:17 am

mexmer wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:31 am
bobucles wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:28 pm
But will all vehicles be allowed in blueprints? Asking for a tank chest build.
you want to have tank imprinted on your chest? :D

is not that for t-shirt section?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jai9d6fPvMc

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by Oktokolo » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:21 am

bobucles wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:28 pm
But will all vehicles be allowed in blueprints? Asking for a tank chest build.
I would also like the blueprinting mechanic to, besides locomotives and cargo/tank wagons, also support cars, tanks, compilatrons and their upgraded version, spidertrons, too.

But where do you need tanks, where cargo wagons do not cut it?
I use cargo-wagon-based buffers, belt balancers and warehouses when playing without Merging Chests and Warehousing. In my experience, it is all about the amount of Inserters/loaders you can have loaing/unloading the container - so larger containers are better than smaller ones.

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by xng » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:25 am

Just a few weeks left now until it has been 1 year since 0.16 was released. I think the devs tend to forget this as time passes a lot more quickly when playing around and having fun with experimental future features instead. For customers that wait on the other hand these years of postponing releases adds up, and seeing each friday how the devs just keep playing around trying stuff out instead of finishing and releasing the already open projects makes it feel like a huge disappointment.

The techdemos you work on instead of finishing the game looks cool though, and I'm happy that you at least have fun in the office. You already got payed so I guess there are nothing else you need to do for your customers and backers.

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by realm174 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:54 pm

xng wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:25 am
Just a few weeks left now until it has been 1 year since 0.16 was released. I think the devs tend to forget this as time passes a lot more quickly when playing around and having fun with experimental future features instead. For customers that wait on the other hand these years of postponing releases adds up, and seeing each friday how the devs just keep playing around trying stuff out instead of finishing and releasing the already open projects makes it feel like a huge disappointment.

The techdemos you work on instead of finishing the game looks cool though, and I'm happy that you at least have fun in the office. You already got payed so I guess there are nothing else you need to do for your customers and backers.
I must have missed that post.. can you link me to where it says that you're entitled to a specific number of releases, or that there shall be no longer than X weeks between releases?

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by Amarula » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:03 pm

I can appreciate that some may find it frustrating to wait for upcoming enhancements.
However the devs always have to walk a line between pushing out new stuff and keeping up the quality.
I for one am happy for the dev team to take as much time as they need so the game doesn't break as soon as something is added - to me, that is the sign that they truly care about their players.

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by Lubricus » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:33 pm

Oktokolo wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:21 am
bobucles wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:28 pm
But will all vehicles be allowed in blueprints? Asking for a tank chest build.
I would also like the blueprinting mechanic to, besides locomotives and cargo/tank wagons, also support cars, tanks, compilatrons and their upgraded version, spidertrons, too.

But where do you need tanks, where cargo wagons do not cut it?
I use cargo-wagon-based buffers, belt balancers and warehouses when playing without Merging Chests and Warehousing. In my experience, it is all about the amount of Inserters/loaders you can have loaing/unloading the container - so larger containers are better than smaller ones.
When you make super UPS optimized factories and use assemblers with direct insertions between trains. Inserters and assemblers have all odd numbered width and rails can only bee and even amount of tiles between them, so you may need to use cars/tanks that have an even numbered width.

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by eradicator » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:56 pm

Lubricus wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:33 pm
When you make super UPS optimized factories and use assemblers with direct insertions between trains. Inserters and assemblers have all odd numbered width and rails can only bee and even amount of tiles between them, so you may need to use cars/tanks that have an even numbered width.
If you use car/tank chests in a "super UPS optimized factory" then you've never measured the UPS impact of cars/tanks (hint: they're way more expensive than chests).

+1 for cars in blueprints anyway though ;)
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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by Lubricus » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:10 pm

eradicator wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:56 pm
Lubricus wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:33 pm
When you make super UPS optimized factories and use assemblers with direct insertions between trains. Inserters and assemblers have all odd numbered width and rails can only bee and even amount of tiles between them, so you may need to use cars/tanks that have an even numbered width.
If you use car/tank chests in a "super UPS optimized factory" then you've never measured the UPS impact of cars/tanks (hint: they're way more expensive than chests).

+1 for cars in blueprints anyway though ;)
https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... confidence
That is hard to beat and uses cars

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by eradicator » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:32 pm

Lubricus wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:10 pm
eradicator wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:56 pm
Lubricus wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:33 pm
When you make super UPS optimized factories and use assemblers with direct insertions between trains. Inserters and assemblers have all odd numbered width and rails can only bee and even amount of tiles between them, so you may need to use cars/tanks that have an even numbered width.
If you use car/tank chests in a "super UPS optimized factory" then you've never measured the UPS impact of cars/tanks (hint: they're way more expensive than chests).

+1 for cars in blueprints anyway though ;)
https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... confidence
That is hard to beat and uses cars
The upmost post is by the creator themselfs clearly states that it's faster without cars:
With some other improvements in fluid handling and replacing most car buffers with inserters and chests, [...]
The linked imgur album even mentions it directly:
I did avoid cars wherever possible, since inserters and chests are better optimized
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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by adam_bise » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:58 pm

Much love for blueprintable trains!! :D :D :D

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by Oktokolo » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:49 pm

xng wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:25 am
Just a few weeks left now until it has been 1 year since 0.16 was released. I think the devs tend to forget this as time passes a lot more quickly when playing around and having fun with experimental future features instead. For customers that wait on the other hand these years of postponing releases adds up, and seeing each friday how the devs just keep playing around trying stuff out instead of finishing and releasing the already open projects makes it feel like a huge disappointment.
The techdemos you work on instead of finishing the game looks cool though, and I'm happy that you at least have fun in the office. You already got payed so I guess there are nothing else you need to do for your customers and backers.
Not sure about the Factorio devs. But i would ask you to leave and never come back if you where my customer.

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by McDuff » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:15 am

Tbh, while using cars is a quirky mechanic, I think that speaks more of a need to figure out what problem cars are solving and get something non-hacky in to do the job.

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Re: Friday Facts #263 - Trains in blueprints

Post by JimBarracus » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:15 am

Lubricus wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:33 pm

When you make super UPS optimized factories and use assemblers with direct insertions between trains. Inserters and assemblers have all odd numbered width and rails can only bee and even amount of tiles between them, so you may need to use cars/tanks that have an even numbered width.
you can place 12 red inserters between two cargo waggons
not the most elegant solution but the best workaround for this problem

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