Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

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yousai
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by yousai »

Clipboard Blueprints is indeed a crucial addition. I feel like I mostly use them just to quickly duplicate a one-off design!

Just one important question: When can we expect an experimental build? :?:

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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Bokkie »

Undo, legen-wait for it-dary!

ske
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by ske »

Today kovarex is a generous god.

jmurrayufo
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by jmurrayufo »

I love every bit of this update.
Research queue conclusion
The LAN party also gave us insight, that the research queue is still valuable in some cases, especially in multiplayer, where I can add the research I need after the current one without cancelling the research of someone else. After some discussions, internal voting and more discussions, we decided to go this way:

Research queue is in the game, but it is disabled by default. It can be turned on with an advanced option checkbox, and this option is also turned on automatically once a player finishes the game for the first time. This way, we still ensure that the new players have the experience as wanted, but veterans that play it again and again, and players who are researching infinite technologies, have it available.
Thank you so much for being willing to compromise for your players here. I was worried we were seeing more and more "Devs telling you how to play the game" sorta deal here. I am very happy to see a compromise between the needs of new players, and the needs of experienced players. This is a fantastic choice, a great default, and a feature I am very much looking forward to enjoying!

Prembil
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Prembil »

My weekly dose of excitement just arrived, I'm happy that the queue and shortcuts will come, they'll be more than handy.

Khaim
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Khaim »

WIZ4 wrote:How about a capsule with temporary construction robots for an early game?
This, so much. The NanoBots mod isn't perfect but it's a great starting point.

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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by ratchetfreak »

kovarex wrote:
ratchetfreak wrote: Also in the clipboard menu definitely have an option to turn it into a proper blueprint.

This would integrate copy-paste with the blueprint library a lot more

workflow will become: ctrl+v and select the area to blueprint, then if temporary use ctrl+v to past wherever, if you want a more permanent copy then go to the blueprint library and click the make from clipboard button to make it a blueprint (then naming and icons),
This is how it works already. Control + V and then you can click to the inventory/blueprint library to move it there. (to create blueprint out of the clipboard)
My point is more that copy-paste tool should be more intuitively integrated into the workflow for a new blueprint. Even more so when you implement the clipboard history.

I foresee a lot of people using the ctrl+c over going to the blueprint menu to select the are for a new a new blueprint.

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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by igorhgf »

Awesome. I wanted a Undo feature for some time. And the upgrade planner always felt a little cheese... but it was better than manually replacing hundreds of entities.

I use a mod to mirror blueprints. Any chances to have this functionality for copy/cut ?

diederTheBeater
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by diederTheBeater »

If i understand the copy paste feature correctly it also solves a really annoying problem with the picking tool (Q).

currently: When i run out of blue belts i have to mine a belt before i can q it to place new ghost blueprints, but usually there are even ghost belts around, so the robots will steal the blue belt from my hand and i am lost again. This is nerve wrecking.

The new copy paste feature does not solve the issue, but at least gives a very easy work around. It would still be cool if the robots don't steal items from the hand, but its good enough now.

And thankyou for the research queue <3 (queue length should be moddable via the lua console)

hoylemd
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by hoylemd »

Great news! Copy and Paste is something I've wanted so much, but didn't think would ever come because a blueprint item does the job really well. I never even thought about *cut* and paste, and that is game-changingly good.

I'm especially pleased to hear about the research queue. This sounds like a great compromise to me. I'll certainly be using the feature!

This is what makes Wube such an awesome developer. You listen to your community, even when you disagree with us. And then you don't just give in to demands, you find a compromise that works for everyone (or at least mostly everyone).

Thank you for being so awesome! We <3 you!

Zavian
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Zavian »

kovarex wrote: And again, instead of pressing Q, you just manually click an quickbar (action bar) slot to store it. Action for an action.
Most of the time my toolbar will have every slot reserved for something, so unless I'm missing something, I would need to open my inventory, then click to place it into my inventory, then close my inventory. Don't forget that the game standard way of dropping something from my hand back into my inventory, is to just press Q, so I also need to remember that this is the exception, and that this time I shouldn't press Q. If I forget and accidentally hit Q, then I need to notice the pop-up, and mentally switch gears to process the unexpected result, then close the pop-up. Will further UI interaction be blocked until I deal with the pop-up? If so that's a flow-breaking UI design issue. But the alternative of allowing me to play on until I choose to deal with the pop-up will complicate the code. (Not to mention the complications if I then try to use that blueprint, or even create and then drop another new blue-print). I still think the better choice is to simply drop the new blueprint into the player's quickbar or inventory, and show a blueprint library tutorial the first time the player does that. That is consistent with the rest of the UI, and won't break players flow (except for once when the tutorial triggers). The other alternative is to add an option so experienced players can specify where to drop the blueprint when they press Q, and avoid the pop-up.
Last edited by Zavian on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tehfreek
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by tehfreek »

kovarex wrote:The cut paste is similar. Ctrl+X also allows you to select an area, but as a bonus, it also marks it for deconstruction.
Please consider implementing it similar to Cut and paste tools so that the entities aren't marked for deconstruction until the new print has been pasted.

Koub
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Koub »

Please pretty please, make all this awesomeness work within hand reach when there are no bots. I miss so much the feature, every new game, I make blueprints, and have to manually plonk every single item by hand, it's a torture :).
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

Ratzap
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Ratzap »

Raising the bar yet again. Seriously, the amount of thought and polish in Factorio puts many AAA titles to shame.

Jarin
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Jarin »

KatherineOfSky wrote:I have to say I got very excited when I saw the robots in the FFF deconstructing basic items like stone smelters and yellow belts -- I was very much hoping you were announcing early game robots! (Would LOVE these! <3 )
Seconding this. I understand logistic systems being deep down the tech tree, but basic construction bots seem like something that could stand to be moved a lot earlier.

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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by MicFac »

ChildishGiant wrote:This is amazing! I'm so glad that the construction planner is being added as a vanilla functionality and I'm also really happy that the research queue isn't dead. When could we expect these features to be added to stable?
Some time if you really mean stable. 0.17 isn't even out in experimental.

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Omnifarious
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Omnifarious »

The solution for the 'Q' key when holding a blueprint seems like it would be very annoying. If you must do this, allow someone to select a default and never have the dialog box show up again.

Edit: I missed the bit where koravex said this would only happen with brand new blueprints. Well, that's fine then. Still slightly irritating, but not all that distressing really. At least, not to me. :-)
Last edited by Omnifarious on Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Selvek »

Best FFF ever!!!

On the "new blueprint Q window" topic: I don't remember whether there was ever a conclusion on changing the hotbar so that it only holds links, not items, but I think things would be much simpler in general if your "hand" couldn't hold anything that doesn't exist in your inventory. Aside from removing the ambiguity of this edge blueprint case, it would prevent the ever-present problem where you can't put down what's in your hand because the bots just filled up your last inventory slot.

But, as an aside, what possible case would there be for ever creating a temporary blueprint that you want to destroy rather than putting in your inventory? It only exists in your hand, so you can only have one blueprint that exists this way at a time. Which sounds kinda like... the copy and paste clipboard! So my vote is it always goes into your inventory. And there's always the "drop item" hotkey if you really don't want it, which could maybe destroy the blueprint instead of actually dropping it.

To the "early construction bots" people - do you remember the satisfying OMG moment when you first got access to construction bots? The very first time? Would you want to deprive new players of that incredible feeling? :lol: Similar to the "new game plus" thread, if you want to quickstart a new game and have early bots, mods are the right way to do it IMO.

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Philip017
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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Philip017 »

very nice news indeed, thank you all for your hard work.

I happen to agree with the assessment on the pop up for when pressing Q, there should be an option to automatically do this always, say in the menu somewhere, and in the pop up a check box.
personally i prefer destroy. if i wanted to keep it, i would place it in my action bar/inventory. if it was already in my action bar/inventory it returns to there. if i took it from my library, destroy. if i made a blueprint, but didn't place it in my action bar/inventory, destroy.

nice work on the copy paste functionality, and when pressing Q while copy pasting to not have the pop up is ideal. but not having the pop up at all seems most appropriate.

i agree the blueprint library should be permanent storage, if i update a blueprint in my inventory, it is not also updated in my library, unless i place it there.

still recommend a per game storage as well, shared blueprints could become game blueprints, so that when i use mods in my game, i can store the game's blueprints there, so when switching mods those blueprints are not lost, either that or keep the blueprint books, so i am not filling my character inventory with blueprints for my modded game. or you can solve the issue currently present in the game, that blueprints with modded items are lost/broken if you change mods or stop using the mod. they could become unavailable, greyed out, but not lost. if you decide to take the blueprint anyway, the addition of upgrade planner could replace modded entities with their vanilla counterparts, or at least what is closest. assembly machines, inserters and belts could be easy switched if they have the same foot print (1x1, 3x3). or empty spaces if no replacement could be made.

extra extra thanks for the addition of upgrade planner, really really appreciating this addition! suggest it have it's own research to unlock after construction robots.

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Re: Friday Facts #255 - Construction tools

Post by Oktokolo »

Koub wrote:Please pretty please, make all this awesomeness work within hand reach when there are no bots. I miss so much the feature, every new game, I make blueprints, and have to manually plonk every single item by hand, it's a torture :).
This is the elephant in the room since blueprints are not locked behind research anymore.
I always play with Nanobots and upgrade planner and still call it "vanilla", because that mods are essential for not getting carpal tunnel syndrome. I disable Nanobots after getting to vanilla bots though.

Some bots that can place entities should be craftable pre-oil. They do not have to be able to fly - but just altering the standard construction bot recipe would probably be the easiest solution to implement.

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