Friday Facts #254 - No research queue for you

Regular reports on Factorio development.
User avatar
Beuteschema
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: Friday Facts #254 - No research queue for you

Post by Beuteschema » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:51 pm

i think the research queue would have been a great feature to have new players simply would have to use it

factoriouzr
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:23 am

Re: Friday Facts #254 - No research queue for you

Post by factoriouzr » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:38 pm

The research queue is badly needed and scrapping it is a bad idea.

I hate being interrupted every few seconds or minutes while designing my factory or going to fend off a biter attack, repair something etc by having to pick another research. This problem is even more obvious late game when I'm trying to complete the researches I don't really care about and because my factory produces so much very fast, it's constant interruptions. I know I can choose to ignore the bright and annoying flashing area, but guess what, it's annoying and distracting. It takes my focus away from what I want to focus on now. So now I have to press T twice to quickly open and close the research window to get rid of the annoying flashing. However this isn't the solution. While I'm busy and deep in thought about my factory or busy saving my base from biters, the research is stopped and thus wasting time and making it take longer for me to progress through the game. Science packs are not produced anymore because their limits were reached and again slowing down progress. Plus, not to mention that I played this game hundreds of times and I'm tired of picking every single research one by one. This is a game about automation, I want to automate research as well.

Oh and lets not forget all the useless technologies you have to research to get to many of the things you actually want. Many technologies don't give anything useful or cool to play with to the player, they are just useless stepping stones to better things.

Your argument for getting rid of the research queue doesn't make sense. It's a much requested feature, and even with the queue, nothing is stopping new players from picking one technology at a time. The proper way to address this is to have a research log or something similar when you open the research window that shows the last things that were researched (or perhaps all things that were ever researched in order) that way players can glance at that and see what happened. Removing such a useful feature when the problem you talk about doesn't even exist, is not a good solution. A log would easily work and keeps the players informed.

I want to pick a research down the tree and have all per-requisites be researched automatically. I also want to be able to pick an infinite research and having it keep going forever (this is great late game).

Jürgen Erhard
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:29 pm

Re: Friday Facts #254 - No research queue for you

Post by Jürgen Erhard » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:31 am

The problem with the research queue is that the notification system is, frankly, utter garbage.

You (I mean all of you devs) have played other games, haven't you? Ones with notification systems? Tell me one where notifications are that limited: they only notify of a *small* set of events (a very very limited set). They only blink in some corner of the screen. *AND* they are not accessible "after the fact". You were busy with something else or just didn't click/hover quick enough? Too bad, the notification is gone.

That needs fixin'. But frankly, at this point, I'm not holding out any hope since I don't think you're even aware of that.

usafphoenix
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:42 am

Re: Friday Facts #254 - No research queue for you

Post by usafphoenix » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:17 pm

While I get the argument that "[by going into the research window after a technology has been completed, you can review what has been unlocked]" that is a minor point. generally, technology (for my case at least) has been chosen specifically because of what it unlocks, so i do not need to "review" the technology once it completes. I know what i was waiting for. In many cases, a single technology can have multiple effects. We already print to the screen when a technology is completed. It's actually a minor issue to print: "recipes unlocked: {print list}".

the bonus to the feature not being added at this time: there are already mods that are far superior to the feature being described. Although the ability to search for science/hide science requiring a specific pack may prove "cheaty", added to the ability the mod so-named "Research Queue" has of being able to automatically queue up pre-requisite technologies. Having to manually chose technologies to queue and being limited to 5 is therefore, in some ways more reasonable (although at the cost of extra work for the players who've memorized the tech tree and dream about it in their sleep lol)

I support the decision to hold the idea for now, but hope it'll be looked at again at a later date. Also, the idea could be implemented in such a way to be more similar to the mod that already exists, but is a feature that must be turned on in the options menu: as a research queue of any sort could cause the issue of "what did that unlock again?" ----but the answer to this is fairly simple: press 'T', and review the science already completed.

Also: another idea would be to unlock the ability to use the research queue once certain achievements were unlocked: (beat the game is the bare minimum), but perhaps locking the queue from being used until "beat the game within 24 hours" as well. or other such things. By locking the ability to use the research queue behind achievements, you mitigate the probability of a player not knowing what a research unlocked (they'd have to have played the game fairly fully by that point and have a fluent knowledge of the game's workings) and you set it up in such a way that it makes the game less tedious for veterans while presenting itself as a trophy/loot with meaning to players who are new to factorio. "You've beaten the game, your now have special features." Lots of games have mechanics like this: levels or difficulties locked behind achievements or easter eggs. The biggest issue i see with a research queue is also solved by locking it behind some of the achievements that, once gained should represent a knowledge of the game that removes the biggest issues with the Research Queue being available.

mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2579
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am

Re: Friday Facts #254 - No research queue for you

Post by mrvn » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:26 am

usafphoenix wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:17 pm
While I get the argument that "[by going into the research window after a technology has been completed, you can review what has been unlocked]" that is a minor point.
It's an invalid point as the research window can open after every technology has been completed with or without research queue. There already is an option for the window to open or not. Change that to 3 options: always, when queue is empty or never. Done.

usafphoenix
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:42 am

Re: Friday Facts #254 - No research queue for you

Post by usafphoenix » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:18 am

i disagree. for NEW players, having the tech window pop up after a completed technology *is* useful for some people. for *some* people. But for the majority of players, i do believe, most of us disable this quite early as it gets a bit annoying.

mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2579
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am

Re: Friday Facts #254 - No research queue for you

Post by mrvn » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:09 am

usafphoenix wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:18 am
i disagree. for NEW players, having the tech window pop up after a completed technology *is* useful for some people. for *some* people. But for the majority of players, i do believe, most of us disable this quite early as it gets a bit annoying.
You don't disagree, you are missing the point. Because the window WOULD open for new players or those that want it. Always opening would be the default for obvious reasons. Only experienced players would change the option to have the window not constantly open and bother them.

Post Reply

Return to “News”