Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

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PacifyerGrey
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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by PacifyerGrey » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:52 am

Keep up the good work guys!
While Satisfactory might be interesting it can never compare with Factorio in a scale of your creations. Anyhow you will still remain a "classic of the genre" title which is a great achievement overall.

As for the upcoming 0.17 features.
All those interface changes and optimizations are nice to get but I would encourage you focus on game features that many players really expect to see which you mentioned in "other features"
- Map generation. I see it the MOST important feature of all of them. It literally effects every player in every gameplay.
- Fluid physics. One of the most UPS hitting features of them all, a culprit in so many megabase designs.

Also mod sync with MP server is 100% must have.

P.S. New battery icon sux

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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by meganothing » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:38 am

Sander_Bouwhuis wrote:Playing on multiple servers is so much of a problem that I stopped playing.
If you have the gog version of Factorio it is very easy to install it multiple times in different locations (edit the GUI icon before installing the next version so it isn't overwritten) and mod each version differently. Even with a steam version you can do that , but you need to copy the folder manually (and add GUI icons manually as well).

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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by Sander_Bouwhuis » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:28 pm

meganothing wrote:
Sander_Bouwhuis wrote:Playing on multiple servers is so much of a problem that I stopped playing.
If you have the gog version of Factorio it is very easy to install it multiple times in different locations (edit the GUI icon before installing the next version so it isn't overwritten) and mod each version differently. Even with a steam version you can do that , but you need to copy the folder manually (and add GUI icons manually as well).
Unfortunately, I have the Steam version. But it's a good tip for pros.

Having said that, it's a huge hassle to ask that for everybody who wants to join your server to 'just have fun'.

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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by BlueTemplar » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:37 pm

Get the official version ?
https://wiki.factorio.com/Install_guide

I hear that the Steam version is not DRM-free. Why?

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mexmer
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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by mexmer » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:00 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:Get the official version ?
https://wiki.factorio.com/Install_guide

I hear that the Steam version is not DRM-free. Why?
because it uses steam sdk functionality and requires Steam to launch (and steam on launch checks, if you have rights to launch the application - eg. if you have purchased it), and by definition whatever application you get from steam (that uses steam SDK), cannot be drm free.

but AFAIK you can link your factorio account with steam account and download DRM free version.

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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by Zavian » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:05 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:I hear that the Steam version is not DRM-free. Why?
The steam version supports steam achievements, and (I believe) steam cloud sync. (It's also missing the built in updater, since steam will keep the game upto date). I'm pretty sure that those features won't work properly unless steam is running. If that bothers anyone, you can always link your steam account to your Factorio.com account and download a drm free version that doesn't use steam. (But people bothered by steam, probably wouldn't have bought via steam anyway).

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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by BlueTemplar » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:14 pm

What about these games?
The Big List of DRM-Free Games on Steam

Pay attention to the SteamWorks mentions.
(and especially the Valve games!)

(yes, obviously Steam Cloud Saves and Steam Achievements won't work if Steam isn't running, but it's not about that... and Factorio has its own Achievements anyway - and a modding portal! - that's why the DRM on the Steam version is so surprising !)
Also, I linked the explanation to how to get the official, DRM-free version, just above.

SteamWorks itself has several levels of DRM, see this for more information :
How to run Steam games offline forever (Tutorial)

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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by Sander_Bouwhuis » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:59 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:What about these games?
The Big List of DRM-Free Games on Steam
Don't they mean : DRM on top of Steam's DRM?
I guess the games on that list have a loader that checks whether Steam is running or not. If not, they start the DRM free version, else they start the Steam version. (I'm guessing)

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mexmer
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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by mexmer » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:19 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:What about these games?
The Big List of DRM-Free Games on Steam

Pay attention to the SteamWorks mentions.
(and especially the Valve games!)

(yes, obviously Steam Cloud Saves and Steam Achievements won't work if Steam isn't running, but it's not about that... and Factorio has its own Achievements anyway - and a modding portal! - that's why the DRM on the Steam version is so surprising !)
Also, I linked the explanation to how to get the official, DRM-free version, just above.

SteamWorks itself has several levels of DRM, see this for more information :
How to run Steam games offline forever (Tutorial)
guess you missed crucial point and that is, that steam version uses steam SDK and yes, requires steam client ... so it can't be drm free, because steam is DRM in this case.
you can download DRM version from factorio web, so you have option to get DRM free version as owner of steam version.

and as for that list, i can say only this i own dungeon siege (whole trilogy), and no, it's not DRM free, regardless what that page describes.

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by BlueTemplar » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:12 pm

Seriously?
BlueTemplar wrote: Pay attention to the SteamWorks mentions.
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/sdk
The Steamworks SDK is only required to upload your content to Steam, everything else provided through the SDK is optional.
[...]
The full list of features provided through the SDK is as follows.
  • drm - Steam DRM
(emphasis mine)

Want another source?
https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Jennife ... r_Game.php
As previously stated, Steam’s DRM is light. It’s so light, it’s even optional.

Consider Paradox Interactive, the Swedish video game publisher. They are masters of foregoing Steam’s DRM. When players download their games through Steam, everything functions as it would with DRM. The game launches just like any other game would. However, if you were to launch the application independently of Steam, you’ll find it still works. That means the game isn’t Steam’s anymore: it’s the player’s.
(It's not true for all Paradox Interactive published games, but seems to be for (all?) Paradox Development Studio developed titles.
Also, for Stellaris, which I don't see on the list.)

As for Dungeon Siege...
2018-06-25 (4).png
2018-06-25 (4).png (369.58 KiB) Viewed 1103 times
Sander_Bouwhuis wrote:
BlueTemplar wrote:What about these games?
The Big List of DRM-Free Games on Steam
Don't they mean : DRM on top of Steam's DRM?
No, seriously, it's on top of the page !
Project aim :
List all games on Steam which are DRM-free, that meaning games which can be launched without the use of the Steam client.

Definition of "DRM-free on Steam"
  • DRM-free on Steam does not refer to games which don't use third-party DRM; the Steam client is DRM if it is required to run the game.
  • DRM-free games on Steam are games which do not require the Steam client or any third-party DRM in order to launch said game's respective executable or startup script (.exe
I guess the games on that list have a loader that checks whether Steam is running or not. If not, they start the DRM free version, else they start the Steam version. (I'm guessing)
Depends on the game. Stellaris seems to indeed work roughly this way :
2018-06-25 (5).png
2018-06-25 (5).png (848.02 KiB) Viewed 1103 times
Other games don't, some of them even have had their files (almost?) unchanged, which pre-date the time when Steam started selling non-Valve games ! (2006)

Some, like Factorio, have their own Achievements system, that *still* works without running Steam :
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/why_d ... nts/post30
(Sword of the Stars : The Pit, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Binding of Isaac)
Some of the games on Steam have only in-game Achievements : FTL :Faster Than Light)

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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by bobingabout » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:09 am

mexmer wrote:i suppose, there is only 1 question after reading that

0.17 when? :mrgreen:
Hopefully not too soon, I haven't had a chance to get my claws into the 0.17 source yet, and I probably won't until august. there were a few features I wanted to have a go at programming, and if 0.17 releases after august some time, it's possible my features could be included in it.

I'm not outright advertising what I want to try and do though, because I don't want to disappoint if I end up not doing it :P
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.
I also have a Patreon.

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Re: Friday Facts #248 - Not Saturday Facts

Post by posila » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:28 am

If you manage to prevent Steamworks to try to restart the game under a Steam client (which can be done by creating a text file next to executable), the Steam build will work without Steam too. But I don't see any point in doing that since you can download proper DRM-free build from us.

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