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Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:01 pm
by Klonan

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:04 pm
by orzelek
Ohh early friday facts :D

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:13 pm
by HammerPiano
If you had to pick one entity that represents the game to you the most, which one would it be?
Assembling machine 3, after all we try to automate everything, even automating automation :D

Can't wait to see what will be in the new player experience!

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:17 pm
by fishycat
Why not use Morgan Freeman FactorioBot as narrator for demo and also in tutorials and campaigns?

He could slowly follow you around and on click a little screen or window opens with all the objectives and infos.

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:19 pm
by Aidiakapi
The most core item is in my opinion the inserter. It is ubiquitous, whether you're setting up smelters, automation columns, refining, using belts or bots, the inserter's always there :).

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:19 pm
by Darkhogg
If you had to pick one entity that represents the game to you the most, which one would it be?
Inserters

Maybe assembly machines are more representative of the automation, but inserters are a key item in that automation as well, are much more recognizable at a glance (assembly machines are, essentially, big grey blocks) and I'd say very unique to Factorio (other similar games tend not to include them).

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:19 pm
by peet1993
Redoing the tutorial definitely sounds like a good idea. As you talk about level switching, I think it would be really cool to just keep everything as is when changing levels, so the new player isn’t overwelmed with "oh, this is completely different than my thinking process, who did they do this and that". I know that would need a different approach to objective design etc, but it would feel more natural to new players and doesn't interfere with their personal thinking process, which is an important part of the factorio feel and playstyle (IMO).

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:43 pm
by voddan
+1 for saving the game as-is between levels. If I crafted an extra item I expect it to help me down the line.

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:54 pm
by magix39
Probably a bad idea but it would be interesting to see the backers list before final scrubbing but after final lock cuz I'm sure not everyone will make the 1 week deadline :D

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:59 pm
by Ojelle
What I disliked the most of the tutorial in 0.9.something was that I had to start a new map after launching/building the plane. Just generate a map around it and let us continue play! If needed create a ring of sea/something creative to avoid any terrain generation gaps. A ring makes the first run also a tad easier :)

And my Iconic thing are the belts. More specificly the belt spaghetti! Even endgame I love to do sections of my map with belts only because its simply fun to lay down. You can even show of a few tricks with preconstructed belts. (undergrounds taking half a belt, 'weaving' undergrounds, a basic 1-1 left right balancer, priority of left/right on splitters (that new function) A less basic 4-4 balancer is probably not such a great idea unless very cleverly placed.

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:01 pm
by bayoublue
I think the combination of belts and inserters is the most important aspect of the game, at least for the first dozen hours.

Saving state between tutorials is nice, but I don't think it is critical if the tutorials are fairly small in size (and therefore player investment).

The more time the player spends in each one, the more important it is to save state between them.

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:41 pm
by FlyingNat
If you had to pick one entity that represents the game to you the most, which one would it be?
Inserter

I Definitely agree that the inserter is one of the most important factorio mascots (apart from the iconic cog of course), it's everywhere, from the belt to the furnace to the assembling machine, they are essential to game play and honestly, it's the item you make the most of (apart from the belt).

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:59 pm
by MasterBuilder
The bare minimum you need to demonstrate the mechanics of the game are:
Miner -> Belt -> Inserter -> Assembler -> Inserter -> Chest.

Point is, this demonstrates resource extraction, automation, and transportation. This is a core mechanic that scales. None of these by themselves paint a clear picture.
(Yes, you'd need electricity (or fuel) there, but for the sake of a scripted tutorial, that could be magicked in. Electricity is another puzzle to solve, but only makes demonstrating automation harder; and more complex to a new user.)
I know I skipped smelting too. That's also another layer of complexity that's part of the automation puzzle. But again, it just makes demonstrating the automation aspect harder. A simple (tutorial only) recipe that turned iron ore into belts would be enough to show the concept.

You could also just do: Miner -> Assembler -> Inserter -> Chest. It would technically work, but it doesn't scale well and wont teach the player the right things. (It might make them think miners have to be adjacent to assemblers.)

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:22 pm
by bbgun06
MasterBuilder wrote:The bare minimum you need to demonstrate the mechanics of the game are:
Miner -> Belt -> Inserter -> Assembler -> Inserter -> Chest.

Point is, this demonstrates resource extraction, automation, and transportation. This is a core mechanic that scales. None of these by themselves paint a clear picture.
(Yes, you'd need electricity (or fuel) there, but for the sake of a scripted tutorial, that could be magicked in. Electricity is another puzzle to solve, but only makes demonstrating automation harder; and more complex to a new user.)
I know I skipped smelting too. That's also another layer of complexity that's part of the automation puzzle. But again, it just makes demonstrating the automation aspect harder. A simple (tutorial only) recipe that turned iron ore into belts would be enough to show the concept.

You could also just do: Miner -> Assembler -> Inserter -> Chest. It would technically work, but it doesn't scale well and wont teach the player the right things. (It might make them think miners have to be adjacent to assemblers.)
It's not a good idea to have special rules or recipes for the tutorial. That would confuse new players even more. Without electricity, use burner inserters and burner assemblers.
So the setup would be Miner -> Belt -> Furnace -> Burner Inserter -> Burner Assembler -> Burner Inserter -> Chest.
I know burner assemblers don't exist yet, but they would be easy to implement. Perhaps make lvl 1 assemblers into burners, since lvl 2s are not very hard to make and are used for most of the game already.

Then the second tutorial can explain how to make electricity.

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:35 pm
by Deadlock989
If you had to pick one entity that represents the game to you the most, which one would it be?
A yellow belt, with inserters coming a very close second.

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:52 pm
by Avezo
Image

Just reminding that new campaign definitely needs 'interior' missions for flavour like in old Red Alert.

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:00 pm
by Deadlock989
Avezo wrote:Just reminding that new campaign definitely needs 'interior' missions for flavour like in old Red Alert.
Ugh, please no, later editions of Starcraft had that as well, always tried to rush past them to get back to the "real" game.

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:14 pm
by Ghoulish
If you had to pick one entity that represents the game to you the most, which one would it be?

Conveyor belts!

Great to see you adding more polish :)

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:18 pm
by Tomik
I have a solution for part of the list.

Fist. Have there be the space ship wrecks you landed in strewn close to you on the map. Based on pre-start settings you can set a variety of resources to be present in the wrecks.
These ship derelicts can be entered like a storage chest and inside them you may find resources like Gears, Sticks, Copper Wires, Basic Circuits, Firearm Ammo, Repair Packs, Iron Pickaxes and perhaps one Lab building (pre-start settings options). Once you mine the wrecks you could (based on pre-start settings) get also Iron Plates, Copper Plates and Steel. This combined with the existing Trees (Wood), Huge Rocks (Coal, Stone) and Big Rocks (Stone) will allow you to have an initial boost of every resource you need to quickly start up an early base.

Second. And this would tie into my grumbling about Assembly Machine II being unable to build the Oil Refinery in my Lazy Bastard run and basically forcing me to abandon an entire campaign because I could not build it with AM2's and to build AM3's that could build it I need Modules...which require red circuits...which require PLASTICS FROM OIL! 20 hours down the fucking drain! This would need a re-work of the Assembly Tier System.
1. (Burner) Assembly Machine ZERO/0: Requires Coal to work, doesn't work with electricity, you can build it since the very start, can make 2-item recipes.
2. Assembly Machines 1, 2 and 3: Recipe Max-Item number modified +1 ( AM1: 3, AM2: 5, AM3: 7).

ADDENDUM: You could put one or multiple Burner Assembly Machines 0 can be put into the starship wrecks to be found at the start of the game via pre-start settings.

The above two ideas alone would severely cut the time of the initial phase of the game. On par with the many Easy Start modded games out there.

Re: Friday Facts #241 - New player experience

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:24 pm
by irbork
The most representative Factorio's entity is of course Electric Mining Drill. It is where all the automation begins.

My in-game name is as ready as it was when I bought support package :roll: . Let's lock it down for the benefit of the kids who will be able to enjoy Factorio without those unpleasant surprises. :?