Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Regular reports on Factorio development.
GenBOOM
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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by GenBOOM » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:06 pm

Avezo wrote:I'm pretty sure Twinsen spilled out about mod portal already in 'interview' stream with Xtreminator and co. He also spilled out that this FFF was supposed to be third part of belts vs. bots. Yet it's not.

Someone is lying or at least manipulating.
if true, this doesn't bode well.

likely they are waiting until people calm down, forget, or resign themselves to whatever decision they have already decided before announcing it.

while I hope thats not the case, I would not be surprised.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by S_Jacob » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:23 pm

I still don't understand why they instigated the debate about bots immediately after nerfing belt compression.

I agree that using underground belts to compress belts was not intuitive but to eliminate that and side loading and then go on a rant about how bots were OP and everyone was using them? Ridiculous. If I can't compress a belt using inserters or side loading, then there is no point in using them. This breaks so many lane balancers that there's basically no way to do balanced compression without using the next tier of belt, which is terrible game design and breaks when you hit blue belts.

If they were serious about belts, they wouldn't nerf bots, they would make belts actually usable.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by Lubricus » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:00 pm

S_Jacob wrote:I still don't understand why they instigated the debate about bots immediately after nerfing belt compression.

I agree that using underground belts to compress belts was not intuitive but to eliminate that and side loading and then go on a rant about how bots were OP and everyone was using them? Ridiculous. If I can't compress a belt using inserters or side loading, then there is no point in using them. This breaks so many lane balancers that there's basically no way to do balanced compression without using the next tier of belt, which is terrible game design and breaks when you hit blue belts.

If they were serious about belts, they wouldn't nerf bots, they would make belts actually usable.
The removing of belt compression thing was not intentional it's a side effect from the belt performance optimizations. They are working on a solution to make at least side-loading compress the belt without breaking the optimizations.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by ske » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:00 pm

S_Jacob wrote:If they were serious about belts, they wouldn't nerf bots, they would make belts actually usable.
Can you not use belts right now?

Granted, they are not perfect in reference to what perfect is but nothing is really perfect to everybody. Sideloading was kind of an accident and they fixed it again. Turns out, people started loving the bug. Should they keep factorio right where it is now till forever? Should they surrender to the threats of negative reviews by a small minority of disgruntled players who can't stomach that their favourite toy changes with time? It seems they just do that - for now - running away to some convention to "hide" till most of the shitstorm blows over.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by Oktokolo » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:07 pm

Koub wrote:When you announce such unbelievable things, a source would be welcome. Making outrageous (ly false) announcements is pretty lame imho.
It was indeed a sarcastic hint at the failed information politics of Wube.
I am not well-known in the community. I am for almost everyone a nobody here. I do not got a colored name either. So if my post, containing that absurd a claim, is taken serious, Wube has to know, that their information politics suck. You took my post seriously and you exhibit a colored name - so my point already got proven.

I could have just posted "Oh, come on, Wube. Please be more specific and tell us, what will actually happen with the game, we all love so much, that we actually really care?! What will happen with the filtered splitter or the belt compression changes we are hoping to see in the next release?". And i probably should have done that as sarcasm is a problematic thing on the Internet in general.
Please excuse my choice. I was angry at that time. Will use less sarcasm on the Internet in the future... If there will be another 0.16.x release (just kidding; I am sure, there will be multiple).

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by Koub » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:45 pm

tbh, I knew you post was untrue (despite I did not see the sarcasm). I also know there are people who would believe anything as long as what they read goes towards their believing. The world is full of conspirationnists, flatlanders, and whatnot, and I know for I have seen it these last two weeks that some people will mindlessly repeat false things they think they have read somewhere just for the dramatic effect. Too many people have that "Oh well I read it on the Internet, and it's shocking, so that must be true" stance (unfortunately).
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by Oktokolo » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:23 pm

Koub wrote:Too many people have that "Oh well I read it on the Internet, and it's shocking, so that must be true" stance (unfortunately).
That would be a good argument for more posts like mine to slowly improve their media skills by beeing exposed to false claims and their corrections that don't leave room for any doubts ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by Nomadic Steppe » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:08 pm

I'm not surprised by the change of the developers. I read all the comments of the last two FFFs and just missed people saying that they would give negative feedback on steam if the bots were nerfed.

I would like very much to implement the improvement of the splitter

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by Tricorius » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:40 pm

ske wrote:Should they surrender to the threats of negative reviews by a small minority of disgruntled players who can't stomach that their favourite toy changes with time?
I think Wube would make the changes they feel makes the game better for the vast majority of players. (I happen to disagree that major bot nerfs would make the game better for the vast majority of players.)

I’m fine with my toys changing over time. There have been many great improvements in Factorio over the years I have been playing it. But I do leave honest reviews. And if I were to stop playing because of a change I didn’t like, my review would reflect that. :: shrug ::

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by LuckyBadger » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:09 pm

Change of tack with this post, from belts/bots to T-shirts.

Could I suggest that you never make any more of the 'factorio gear' t-shirts. Make a new design instead. It's not as though you are short of great graphical images, from inserters to biters, so why not offer different designs each time around?

That way, as the game grows in popularity, and especially after the official launch of v1.0, the early merchandise becomes really collectible. You the developers gain, because fans want to buy the latest designs (so you sell more stuff), and the fans gain, because their collection gains in value, thus rewarding the early adopters.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by dgw » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:37 pm

LuckyBadger wrote:Change of tack with this post, from belts/bots to T-shirts.

Could I suggest that you never make any more of the 'factorio gear' t-shirts. Make a new design instead. It's not as though you are short of great graphical images, from inserters to biters, so why not offer different designs each time around?

That way, as the game grows in popularity, and especially after the official launch of v1.0, the early merchandise becomes really collectible. You the developers gain, because fans want to buy the latest designs (so you sell more stuff), and the fans gain, because their collection gains in value, thus rewarding the early adopters.
Keep in mind that there were more people who wanted to buy the initial shirts than were able to, due to limited stock. The gear logo is also Factorio's actual logo, and it's not likely to change, so stopping sales of merchandise with the game's official, most recognizable logo would be less than ideal.

Though they could change the progress bar and caption for each edition? I want to buy one that's stuck at 89% "Loading sprites" :D
Last edited by dgw on Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by Nomadic Steppe » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:37 pm

LuckyBadger wrote:Change of tack with this post, from belts/bots to T-shirts.

Could I suggest that you never make any more of the 'factorio gear' t-shirts. Make a new design instead. It's not as though you are short of great graphical images, from inserters to biters, so why not offer different designs each time around?

That way, as the game grows in popularity, and especially after the official launch of v1.0, the early merchandise becomes really collectible. You the developers gain, because fans want to buy the latest designs (so you sell more stuff), and the fans gain, because their collection gains in value, thus rewarding the early adopters.

good idea ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by TheRaph » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:18 pm

dgw wrote: Though they could change the progress bar and caption for each edition? I want to buy one that's stuck at 89% "Loading sprites" :D
Even better idea.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by PacifyerGrey » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:29 pm

TheRaph wrote:
dgw wrote: Though they could change the progress bar and caption for each edition? I want to buy one that's stuck at 89% "Loading sprites" :D
Even better idea.
Or right how it is now lol
Stuck at 89% "Nerfing logibots"

Just kidding

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by DaemosDaen » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:57 am

LuckyBadger wrote:Change of tack with this post, from belts/bots to T-shirts.

Could I suggest that you never make any more of the 'factorio gear' t-shirts. Make a new design instead. It's not as though you are short of great graphical images, from inserters to biters, so why not offer different designs each time around?

That way, as the game grows in popularity, and especially after the official launch of v1.0, the early merchandise becomes really collectible. You the developers gain, because fans want to buy the latest designs (so you sell more stuff), and the fans gain, because their collection gains in value, thus rewarding the early adopters.
But I like the gear logo, and I haven't had the money to get my shirt yet.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by Saiph » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:06 am

Thanks for the new mod portal! It's SO much faster!

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by BryanSw » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:50 am

Sorry for the duplicate post, edited wrongly.
Last edited by BryanSw on Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by BryanSw » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:51 am

S_Jacob wrote:using underground belts to compress belts was not intuitive but to eliminate that and side loading and then go on a rant about how bots were OP and everyone was using them? Ridiculous. If I can't compress a belt using inserters or side loading, then there is no point in using them. This breaks so many lane balancers that there's basically no way to do balanced compression without using the next tier of belt, which is terrible game design and breaks when you hit blue belts.
1. Nowhere has it been said that they plan to leave belt compression as-is. In fact, they've said the opposite. So what you've got here is a temporary situation with belt compression, not a 'nerf' or a permanent change.
2. The argument about bots being OP, regardless of what one's opinion of it is, was made assuming compressed belts. Examples given were specifically of using the top-tier belts compressed, high-end megabases, etc.

The belt compression issue and the bots nerfing issue are not at all related. I suggest that we judge them based on what they end up doing, not on assumptions that what we have is the final product, or that everything's going to be fine, or that they are just waiting until everyone 'gets over it' before doing whatever it is they originally intended. So far all we have is a discussion that's been tabled for the time being and a temporary belt compression issue in an experimental release of a product still in alpha.

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by js1 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:35 pm

Speaking of mod portal, can you add a category "Circuits" for circuit network mods (new combinators etc.)?

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Re: Friday Facts #226 - New mod portal & other news

Post by ItsDarthChaos » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:47 am

Honestly... It's up to the devs to decide on how THEY want to view game progression. And if they decide to nerf bots, someone will just make a mod that undoes the changes, anyway. Lol.

Personally, I've always had one problem with the bots. They make blue belts obsolete before you even really have the chance to use them. I've always seen the bots as 'late game tech', but in all honesty they are given to players far too quickly. If it were me... I'd lock the logistics bots behind the same research as the logistics chests. Give players the ability to use construction drones pre- blue belt, make players grind through the full research vial setup. Let them come up with a solution that DOESNT involve drones. Then when they have all the research done, let them unlock the logistics bots.

To me, the perfect factory has the right combination of bots and belts. I like my mines and smelting operations to still run on belts. They are usually too condensed to optimize drones, and belts just make it look cleaner. Then I'll load everything up on a train, haul them to my central production, and unload where an army of drones waits to take things to where they are needed. It's a beautiful system, and treats the game the way it should be.

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