Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Deadly-Bagel » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:08 am

Sparkysam wrote:No, concentrate on the performance of the game get good multithreading for mods, robots and belts and better server to client performance and then u can do whatever you want with speakers, animals and even grass for all I care.

Saying they should improve multiplayer is a joke right? They had this extremely complex game running with over 400 players. If you still have problems you either have a crappy computer (likely as you're whining about performance) or crappy internet, probably both. I can connect to my brother's game literally on the other side of the planet in about 30 seconds, and as long as his internet doesn't crap out we just have a bit of latency to deal with but that's to be expected over that distance. My laptop is an Asus G73jw, running an old i7, 8GB RAM and 512mb VRAM, and I only have problems with the smoke from 100+ steam engines on screen.

Sparkysam wrote:On another note, i have over 600hours of this game and 580 hours I have had no sound so a speaker sounds the "Best" update ever.

Look, if you want to wallow in self loathing and spite, go right ahead, just don't come whining here about it.

Personally I am eagerly looking forward to this, every single game I lament the ability to create my own alerts and with all the other stuff, just, yay ^^
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby webkilla » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:57 pm

MrDoomah wrote:
webkilla wrote:
Klonan wrote:
webkilla wrote:but... no info on the progress of the 0.15 update? :(


No info other than the weekly posts about all its new features :)


new features are nice and all - but I'm just blueballing for when we'll get it


Its like your girlfriend is sending you nudes and you just want to play with it, but your boss won't tell you how late you're free!


this

Also, while I do love more content - then feature creep is also a thing. I would rather have more regular smaller updates, than fewer bigger updates - since that could also allow for more frequent bug fix updates. But that's just my opinion
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Sparkysam » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:17 pm

Deadly-Bagel wrote:
Sparkysam wrote:No, concentrate on the performance of the game get good multithreading for mods, robots and belts and better server to client performance and then u can do whatever you want with speakers, animals and even grass for all I care.

Saying they should improve multiplayer is a joke right? They had this extremely complex game running with over 400 players. If you still have problems you either have a crappy computer (likely as you're whining about performance) or crappy internet, probably both.

Actually, i have a decent computer 4930k at 4.4 16gb of 2133 ram, 2 Samsung 850pro's in raid 0, 1 G-sync monitor and a GTX 780 not what I call "slow". Also, my internet is the best I can get at 80/20. And no I was not joking between all of me and my 2 friends we struggle with multiplayer a lot of because of poor performance on the server side since it can only use 1 core... and even that is running at 4.2
Deadly-Bagel wrote:Look, if you want to wallow in self-loathing and spite, go right ahead, just don't come whining here about it.

How exactly is anything meant to improve if you don't tell people about it??
The fact resources are being spent on this is not great and more time needs to be dedicated to things which are NEEDED!
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Sparkysam » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:20 pm

webkilla wrote:
MrDoomah wrote:
webkilla wrote:
Klonan wrote:
webkilla wrote:but... no info on the progress of the 0.15 update? :(


No info other than the weekly posts about all its new features :)


new features are nice and all - but I'm just blue balling for when we'll get it


It's like your girlfriend is sending you nudes and you just want to play with it, but your boss won't tell you how late you're free!


this

Also, while I do love more content - than feature creep is also a thing. I would rather have more regular smaller updates, than fewer bigger updates - since that could also allow for more frequent bug fix updates. But that's just my opinion

Agreed a lot of things could be improved instead of one big bulk coming out. even though a lo of people find this good maybe a vote needs to be done on what people want?
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Sparkysam » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:24 pm

hoho wrote:
Sparkysam wrote:Yes I love the video like sandstorm and it is cool and needs a lot of work but the 99% of the game need better performance not this

I'm fairly certain that 99% of people don't ever build bases big enough to slow down their computers. Just 5.8% of people have ever launched a rocket.

Am I guessing you have tried bobs extended? Maybe even farl? Cause playing the game with them the way the base game is very unplayable at playing at 0.5 and 23 fps even on my rig...
Sparkysam wrote:most people will never use this and someone could have just made a mod with it

hoho wrote:Pretty sure one can't really add this as a mod due to lack of relevant prototypes.

Maybe, maybe not but the point I am making is that out of everything is speakers something that is Really Needed?
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Klonan » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:55 pm

Sparkysam wrote:
hoho wrote:
Sparkysam wrote:Yes I love the video like sandstorm and it is cool and needs a lot of work but the 99% of the game need better performance not this

I'm fairly certain that 99% of people don't ever build bases big enough to slow down their computers. Just 5.8% of people have ever launched a rocket.

Am I guessing you have tried bobs extended? Maybe even farl? Cause playing the game with them the way the base game is very unplayable at playing at 0.5 and 23 fps even on my rig...
Sparkysam wrote:most people will never use this and someone could have just made a mod with it

hoho wrote:Pretty sure one can't really add this as a mod due to lack of relevant prototypes.

Maybe, maybe not but the point I am making is that out of everything is speakers something that is Really Needed?


Its up to us to decide what we implement, and there are many different players who all enjoy something else in the game.

You might think it isn't needed, another player might not think optimizations are needed, and we listen to this feedback,
But at the end of the day, you will have to trust us in that we are trying to make the game as good as possible, and as enjoyable for all as it can be
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby hansinator » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:41 pm

Sparkysam wrote:Maybe, maybe not but the point I am making is that out of everything is speakers something that is Really Needed?


Yes, it is really needed. Trust me! Boy are you getting on my nerves.. Your rants are all over the place. Don't you know when to stop? Hint: now is the time.

Edit:
I mean, look at it. You have hijacked multiple threads, even the thank-you thread, just to complain. Then in a seeming outbreak of rage you created a thread to complain about things you obviously don't understand. Where are we, in kindergarten?
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Shaymes » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:04 pm

maybe the speaker is a start in a new alert system with siggnalwire based custom alerts etc :)
just missing some sensors liek motion detectors, preasure plases, laser barriers, etc and something that displays alert icons
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Mooncat » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:32 pm

@Sparkysam: after checking your posts, I think you have gotten something very wrong. Are you really sure making Factorio multi-threaded can help improving the performance of your modded multiplayer game? In 0.15? The devs have been working on improving performance bit by bit. The FFFs are promising.

And, the keyword "mods". When mods are involved, the possibility is infinite. Not only the fun, but also the problems. Of course it is possible that the game itself has performance issue. But it is also possible that a certain mod is using more processing power than it should. Or even worse, the problem is caused only by a combination of some mods (i.e. not A, not B, but A+B). So, whose fault is that? The devs? The modders? Do you really want the devs to waste their time on investigating something so complicated while they don't have full control of it? As a modder, I will be happy if they can enhance mod support, especially improving the event system. But it is totally fine, or, I must say, good, if they want to focus more on improving the base game first.

Third, "speaker" should have been Factorio since long long time ago. It is a must-have feature. For visual creation, we have lamps. But for sound, we have nothing so far, until 0.15. The sound is mostly for fun, while the custom alert has been wanted by many players. And the most important point is that, it will help making Factorio more popular. There will be some series of Youtube/Twitch/etc. videos about musical creation in Factorio. E.g. here is one of Trove: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmFZvYC9wHI&list=PLsWSHtnwzQ3bF-98wd0QUZ0RFgoXZ0Jru. If the number of views cannot convince you, how about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hq1gd1PCsw. I am not recommending Trove. It was just an infinite grinding game when I quit. But it is an example of how "speaker" can help spreading Factorio to more people.

And now, the devs have replied you more than once. They have known your wish. It is clear that they won't change their mind no matter how many times you repeat. So, don't make things look bad. ;)

-----

I am wondering the moddability of speakers.
Modders can easily add more audio samples to the entity, including custom alerts.

Does it mean that we can add more speakers with different tones? Like piano speaker, drum speaker, guitar speaker? :P
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Klonan » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:36 pm

Mooncat wrote:
I am wondering the moddability of speakers.
Modders can easily add more audio samples to the entity, including custom alerts.

Does it mean that we can add more speakers with different tones? Like piano speaker, drum speaker, guitar speaker? :P


I think it will work that you will be able to add new instruments to the current speaker, such that you define with prototype the instrument and the samples/notes for it, which are then available to the programmable speaker entity
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Marqee » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:52 am

i think there are more important things to focus on...

some real goal for playing after "finishing" the game 5-6 times , i have no purpose of playing it again, it is always the same..
there is no need to expand/duplicate /enlarge the base , if not for the mere purpose of doing it.
There is non need of such a large map...

Aliens are so unchallenging that are simply useless.
there are 2 roads the game develop can take:

1) continue to expand the "open box" value of the game that attracts only some sort of players interested in "playing the circuit logic" mainly OR

2) Make the game a stonemile epic one , developing the alien fight /expansion needs / multiple base /new tech /new mats and attract thousand of players.

from my point of view , the sound speaker is useless.
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby rolfl » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:11 pm

Marqee wrote:from my point of view , the sound speaker is useless.


I can understand your point of view, but I believe you misunderstand the potential usefulness of the speaker, and the value of "fun" for both the players, and the developers.

From my perspective, I congratulate the devs on adding a feature that adds a new dimension of creativity to the players of the game. Adding audible alerts is what comes to mind first. Having audible klaxons around the new nuclear plants would be awesome. My creativity streak is "limited" and I am sure that other people will come up with awesome ways to use the speakers both as a toy, and a tool. I can imagine scenarios where the general audible alarm for biter's doing damage is turned off (who cares about landmines and construction robots being destroyed at your self-healing walls) - but a breech of the wall is more critical.... Maybe a set of different alert levels for different degrees of damage. (Note, a signal being available that indicates the types of damage being done would be awesome too).

Also, I can imagine that it has been a lot of fun to develop, and that fun adds "job satisfaction" making some of the harder, more tedious work you also have to do, manageable.

All told, I think it's a great use of your time (just so long as you're also making progress in those more mundane areas like... well, releasing 0.15 ;-).....

In case you don't hear it often enough, you're doing great work. I, for one, appreciate your efforts.
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby hoho » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:20 pm

Sparkysam wrote:
hoho wrote:
Sparkysam wrote:Yes I love the video like sandstorm and it is cool and needs a lot of work but the 99% of the game need better performance not this

I'm fairly certain that 99% of people don't ever build bases big enough to slow down their computers. Just 5.8% of people have ever launched a rocket.

Am I guessing you have tried bobs extended? Maybe even farl? Cause playing the game with them the way the base game is very unplayable at playing at 0.5 and 23 fps even on my rig...

I'm using mods that make it take some 100 hours to get anywhere near blue science. I don't "do" small bases myself.

Again, how big is your base? How much stuff are you producing? How many assemblers/bots do you have?
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Sparkysam » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:46 pm

hoho wrote:
Sparkysam wrote:
hoho wrote:
Sparkysam wrote:Yes I love the video like sandstorm and it is cool and needs a lot of work but the 99% of the game need better performance not this

I'm fairly certain that 99% of people don't ever build bases big enough to slow down their computers. Just 5.8% of people have ever launched a rocket.

Am I guessing you have tried bobs extended? Maybe even farl? Cause playing the game with them the way the base game is very unplayable at playing at 0.5 and 23 fps even on my rig...

I'm using mods that make it take some 100 hours to get anywhere near blue science. I don't "do" small bases myself.

Again, how big is your base? How much stuff are you producing? How many assemblers/bots do you have?


once i get home i'll be able to get photos of my production for you, amount of robots i have no idea as all robots are in sub logistics system for each item.
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Yoyobuae » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:34 pm

There's this flawed idea that putting 3x more devs on a project will make it go 3x faster, it doesn't. ;)

From what I understand Rseding does the code performance improvements, enjoys working on it too. Almost everytime talks about how this or that affects performance. Twinsen is the only one doing circuit network improvements (TY!).

I'm not so sure that forcing some developer which has some particular interests into working on something else is a good thing. Sure, if there's some urgent need then it has to be done. But it's not like Factorio is lacking that much on performance department. Performance issues only arise because players are allowed to push every limit there is. :D

These are people, not machines.
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Jarin » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:14 pm

Jarin wrote:I just wanna know how you sequenced those items on the belts. o.o

To sidetrack from the "I don't want speakers" complaints, going to quote myself here. Seriously, I don't know if this is a failure of my imagination or what, but is there actually a way to sequence a conveyor belt like in that demo video, without savehacking or similar workarounds?
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby torne » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:47 pm

Jarin wrote:To sidetrack from the "I don't want speakers" complaints, going to quote myself here. Seriously, I don't know if this is a failure of my imagination or what, but is there actually a way to sequence a conveyor belt like in that demo video, without savehacking or similar workarounds?


I don't know how they did it for the demo video, but you can do it just by dropping items on the belt or by placing them one at a time into a chest with an inserter emptying it. Labour-intensive, but not difficult ;)
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Mooncat » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:06 am

Klonan wrote:
Mooncat wrote:
I am wondering the moddability of speakers.
Modders can easily add more audio samples to the entity, including custom alerts.

Does it mean that we can add more speakers with different tones? Like piano speaker, drum speaker, guitar speaker? :P


I think it will work that you will be able to add new instruments to the current speaker, such that you define with prototype the instrument and the samples/notes for it, which are then available to the programmable speaker entity


My first question in my mind after seeing this: all instruments in the same speaker entity? So does it mean we need to provide more circuit signals to choose which instrument to play?

Then, I realized I failed to see the "piano" dropdown button. :lol: Thanks for the reply.
Now I hope its alt-view will show the instrument.
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby Jarin » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:10 pm

torne wrote:I don't know how they did it for the demo video, but you can do it just by dropping items on the belt or by placing them one at a time into a chest with an inserter emptying it. Labour-intensive, but not difficult ;)

I was thinking about the chest/inserter, but I don't know how to get it all perfectly compacted like that.
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Re: Friday Facts #175 - Programmable Speaker

Postby aubergine18 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:24 am

Would be great to have a Lua API for playing sounds (ie. without need to add entity to map).
Better forum search for modders: Enclose your search term in quotes, eg. "font_color" or "custom-input" - it prevents the forum search from splitting on hypens and underscores, resulting in much more accurate results.
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