Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

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factoriouzr
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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by factoriouzr » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:22 pm

Grimtongue wrote:Night vision should have a toggle keybind. It's annoying to remove it from the armor and then put it back.

All of those night vision images just looked beyond awful to me. I never liked the way nightvision is implemented in Factorio, so I just place tons of lamps everywhere.


My feedback is that you should implement a keybind to toggle night vision on/off.

What about a toggle for personal roboports lol ;) I think some people still want that, though we need more logistics auto trash slots and logistics request and logistics trash slots should be merged into one as you typically want to trash above what you request, so setting it once, in one spot would be great.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by clusterfack » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:25 pm

ssilk wrote:TL;DR: Nightvision should be what it is: a nightvision.

With that in mind I would like
Image
This is pretty much perfect

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by regex » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:26 pm

Not a fan of any of the nightvision solutions shown in the notes. The second image is much, much better than the current but the third is ... terrible, for lack of a better word. I'll probably continue on with over-lighting and not bother with the nightvision at all, or mod it.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Zyrenica » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:41 pm

One thing that I feel needs to be pointed out for the arguement for 'realistic' NVG systems. This vision mode should help not hinder.
We can already see at night fairly well without it which is why nobody uses the horrible one in place currently.

As such the black and white with IR Highlighting is the only one here I see that actually IMPROVES your vision and makes things better. Any form of glare, noise or anything else and it will just go in the junk pile like the current systems.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Usernm » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:47 pm

Green nightvision is awful in any variant.
No dark at night - it's good. One of the mods do it.
Gray nightvision + color arond light - good. Red enemies - great.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by hansinator » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:52 pm

Zaflis wrote:Original issue was that nobody uses current night vision. The green screen is hard to look at, and it's better off fighting in the dark and use lamps.
I use night vision and I like it. It is easier than placing lamps and after some time I even stopped noticing the green tint. So for me it is good currently. If you change it, please don't make it worse. However, I'd prefer if the devs work on other things that are more of an issue like the horrible fluid mechanics for example.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by SkullTitsGaming » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:36 pm

I suppose the question comes down to what effect you are attempting to create. Seeing as we play from a third person perspective, I always thought it was "hokey" to have the entire world change color at night- if i can't target enemies with a laser turret on the far ends of the map, why in the world can i see that far with my night vision? The flashlight, however, makes sense; having a limited beam effect around my character seems logical, and immersive. I can see full detail at night in a small cone of space, and everything else is darker. Perfect!

So when applying night vision, why not do something similar?

My idea would be to have a new item, "goggles," or "helmet" which has a new space on the hotbar (where weapons/tools go).In this hotbar space, one has a submenu, like the modular armors, which can be outfitted with various items, such as:
  • Filters: alter the hue by applying various alpha channels. Early research applies X alpha channel through Y number of colors, later research allows for full RGBA spectrum with sliders. Stops people from arguing about what color is best, Allows modders to create "trippy rainbow goggles" for factorio rave scene.
  • Low Light Enhancement Module(s): Add contrast/visibility to low light areas,while also increasing bloom/blowout in high-light areas. Would be helpful to increase the darkness at night w/o goggles to make this more valuable. Perhaps allow for multiple modules to intensify effect
  • Friend or Foe Identification Module: allows for passive highlight of enemy (and player) sprites, via either an icon/marker, or different color. Perhaps both, as an option (or separate research).
  • Targeting Module: Displays an overlay of current weapons range/reach.
  • Binoculars/Scope: Increase FOV and/or zoom level.
  • Long Range Module: Add additional range to goggles effect. With no module, the area affected by the goggles is a limited, egg-shaped spot, specific to the player, with more visibility in front of the sprite and less behind it. Adding modules increases the draw distance from the player, until it can almost cover the entire screen at full zoom. this allows for that neat "i spun around and saw a bright light, have to readjust" effect as the FOV passes over transition spots or lights, without seeming like a satellite has decided to start simulating absinthe as it watches our sprite.
I'm sure more ideas could be implemented as well, even if only on a mod level. Alternatively, if modular goggles are too free-reign/ inefficient, why not use some of these categories to create different classes of goggles, with set parameters? At first allow only binoculars which allow for zoom levels (or, when removed, keep the screen zoomed in to 50%, adding an increased challenge and sense of a smaller focus/area). Come green science, expand FOV and add basic night vision with a small AOE, and expand via optional research. As military increases, "combat goggles" are available, decreasing contrast but increasing enemy visibilty, and eventually the holy grail becomes available late-game with all features combined/ selected via hotkey, eliminating the need for switching of items?

Including goggles within modular armor seems flawed; i should be able to put on goggles and see at night while still being a fluffy marshmallow without a lick of protection to my name. Maybe this is a better solution?

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by maniak1349 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:44 pm

Proxy wrote:one question tho.
what are those... Things. they appear Green on the map and you made walls with them.
what are they.
Trees. In DyTech mods you can make tree sapling and plant them to grow trees.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Aardwolf » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:19 am

How about for nightvision just normal day color, with some green effect only on the borders of the screen?

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Marcus Aseth » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:41 am

Tought devs would read this topic rather than the Steam message board under the news, so I'll post my suggestion here:
1)scanline effect to show is a device, if you only paint the screen green then it just looks like fog and is weird
2)maybe some animated noise, to improve the device screen feeling
3)glow around lights, you see a little better around them but you're "blinded" if you stare in the center (more like mildly annoyed)

my idea is that you see with it at night but light sources glow/brightness also kinds of bothers you a bit, this way you use googles when you go on exploration or build on the edges of the base where is dark, but they never replace the need to place lights on your base, otherwise a player could simply choose to play the whole game with it without bothering with lights anymore.
And this ofc require a ON/OFF button to switch them off when you're surrounded by lights.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Iceac » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:09 am

I would like to agree with Marcus Aseth. I would also like to toggle the Nightvision. And make the Nightvision more realistic. Ever looked in a source of Light while Nightvision on? :shock: You can not see a thing. :lol:

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by dee- » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:21 am

Heck, why not simply use AA-lib?


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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Marcus Aseth » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:29 am

dee- wrote:Heck, why not simply use AA-lib?
Well if the color is the only objection, why not a blue-green mix?! I personally find it kind of relaxing... :lol: and "night like" (while still "believable" as night vision)

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Eitelkeit » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:15 pm

Marcus Aseth wrote: Well if the color is the only objection, why not a blue-green mix?! I personally find it kind of relaxing... :lol: and "night like" (while still "believable" as night vision)

Image

Looks nice on screenshot. But i would hate to actually play with that.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Marcus Aseth » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:25 pm

Eitelkeit wrote:Looks nice on screenshot. But i would hate to actually play with that.
And that is exactly my point! ;)
The point is that you rather switch it OFF and build more lights because building is a fundamental part of the game.
The point is that this is the last resort to defend your base during night (since you have slightly better vision on the pitck black areas) or venture outside at night, but shouldn't become the tool you use troughout all night as if it where day making lights useless from that point onward and also night/day cycle irrelevant, and shouldn't even be something that let you go outside at night as easily as if it was day, you still want to feel the pressure and danger of recklessness during the night.
It should improve your current situation but not cut away parts of the gameplay... basically what it adds should be valued in terms of what it removes... a good night vision remove night, making the game as if it where always day, no lights needed...you effectively end up with a game that now offers less, so you actully lost more "game" than you have gained. It's a fine balance... :P

I would also argue that would be cool to have a second light type to place that is more powerful and covers more range compared to the standard one.
Bulding a solid light network FIRST and ALWAYS, nightvision as LAST RESORT for forced night fights. Anyway, only my opinion.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by rolfl » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:44 pm

Eitelkeit wrote:I would also argue that would be cool to have a second light type to place that is more powerful and covers more range compared to the standard one.
Bulding a solid light network FIRST and ALWAYS, nightvision as LAST RESORT for forced night fights. Anyway, only my opinion.
That's a great suggestion, but take it further, and introduce a new "medium electric pole" that has a light included on it.... similar to "street lights", of sorts.

Combining the lights and electric poles would be a very convenient way to distribute both power and light.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Marcus Aseth » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:46 pm

rolfl wrote:That's a great suggestion, but take it further, and introduce a new "medium electric pole" that has a light included on it.... similar to "street lights", of sorts.

Combining the lights and electric poles would be a very convenient way to distribute both power and light.
I like that idea! Keep it compact :P
Last edited by Marcus Aseth on Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Eitelkeit » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:46 pm

Marcus Aseth wrote: And that is exactly my point! ;)
A lot of people in this thread say they just do not bother with nv now, and you suggest making it even worse to use ingame. Why? So the vanilla nv is ignored completly by everyone?

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Marcus Aseth » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:53 pm

Eitelkeit wrote:
Marcus Aseth wrote: And that is exactly my point! ;)
A lot of people in this thread say they just do not bother with nv now, and you suggest making it even worse to use ingame. Why? So the vanilla nv is ignored completly by everyone?
If a lot of people don't want to bother with an aspect of the game because they just want the sandbox build experience on a persistend day, that's a legit choice.

I'm stating my point of view from a guy who like the mix of build AND survival.
After all, I suppose this is also what the game was supposed to be, otherwise they wouldn't have any creeps or weapons or turrets, and it would be more like a Cities: Skyline game.
And if I have to choose to fend off a creep wave with them coming out of pitch black, or fight with a slightly better visibility, then I would use the night vision I suggested for sure, I see no problems at all.

To each one his own : )

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Zaflis » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:21 pm

Marcus Aseth wrote:If a lot of people don't want to bother with an aspect of the game because they just want the sandbox build experience on a persistend day, that's a legit choice.

I'm stating my point of view from a guy who like the mix of build AND survival.
So do i, really like the survival aspect. But how do you build in the dark if you are too lazy to lamp every place? You can't even have lamps around if you're building to new territory like laying a railroad at night. It would suck to do that with scanline blurred nightvision. I bet i would see even better without the nightvision at all.

At this point i would say that if one wants a blurred nightvision, he should make that kind of mod.

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