Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

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wwdragon
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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by wwdragon »

I like the one where you just darken the red and blue channels.

That last one, with the additional brightening hurts my eyes to look at.

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Adil
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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Adil »

What's that about "nightvision must be green" nonsense?
You know, it's not 80's today, cameras get better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4ZIdu1adWg
and factorio guy is in future.
These days I play without nightvision tint, but it seems that the best one is that with gray uniluminated areas: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38435&start=20#p229988
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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by MeduSalem »

MiloRK wrote:Although I agree with some of the new night vision criticism--it could use some work--I really like the thinking behind it! Rewarding placement of lighting is an interesting idea, and other optic benefits could add to the usefulness of researching and wearing night vision goggles. Here's my stab at a night vision concept:
Normal Vision.png
Night Vision.png
Maybe you could upgrade your optics to get thermal vision:
Normal Vision_1.png
Night Vision_1.png
Looks good... I'd be satisfied with that one.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by orzelek »

MeduSalem wrote:
MiloRK wrote:Although I agree with some of the new night vision criticism--it could use some work--I really like the thinking behind it! Rewarding placement of lighting is an interesting idea, and other optic benefits could add to the usefulness of researching and wearing night vision goggles. Here's my stab at a night vision concept:
Normal Vision.png
Night Vision.png
Maybe you could upgrade your optics to get thermal vision:
Normal Vision_1.png
Night Vision_1.png
Looks good... I'd be satisfied with that one.
This version is awesome.
Currently only way to use nightvision is through modded one that removes the tint or makes it uniform along RGB (bob's night vision 3 I think has that or simple mods that affect only night vision).

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by RedStoner_Pro »

I don't understand why you think that the third one is the best to look at? It looks like someone puked on the screen! Please, get rid of the green tint. Night vision has come a long way in the last 20 years, and the green tint is not the only option!

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by vedrit »

Am I the only one who doesn't use the nightvision goggles at all? I don't even research them.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Jan11 »

3rd : aaaa my eyes

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by XBBX »

MiloRK wrote:Although I agree with some of the new night vision criticism--it could use some work--I really like the thinking behind it! Rewarding placement of lighting is an interesting idea, and other optic benefits could add to the usefulness of researching and wearing night vision goggles. Here's my stab at a night vision concept:
Normal Vision.png
Night Vision.png
Maybe you could upgrade your optics to get thermal vision:
Normal Vision_1.png
Night Vision_1.png
Great Friday Facts, as always!
Bets suggestion no ***** green color easy on eyes and with thermal vision will look cool.
And i have question for devs you guys even now why night vision adds green color irl probably no i can't explain good enough so google to the rescue
Night vision why green
Green is best color to use irl but it is possible to use any color on no at all and i prefer no color 95% of people not going to use green night vision better make something useful.
And great fff as always :D

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by delus »

+1 for the Sepia/grey-scale suggestions.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by DeathMers »

Obliterator2 wrote:I personally think it'd be better as actual night vision that can't cope with bright areas, but have a toggle button or an option to have it automatically toggle based on the light level.

I find myself removing the goggles when I'm in a well lit base, as it looks much better just with the natural lighting and lamps. I'd then have to re-equip the goggles if I wanted to venture out.
The example images are a good idea, but they both look really odd (1st looks like the lamps are sucking the green away, and the 2nd one looks like radioactive stuff is leaking from the factory), I think the main problem is coming from trying to mix both bright and dark :P

Edit: nolcotin had the right idea lol, here's a quick mockup using his first image, All I did was remove the red and blue channels and bumped up the brightness, but you get the idea :p
image
I think this looks the most realistic, but it is also the reason it cannot be used, that bright green is for eyes too painful to get used to, and day and night changes pretty much quickly in game.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Wolfolo »

nolcotin wrote:Your biggest problem with nightvision is that you're trying to simultaneously address 2 design goals:

(1) Nightvision should improve the appearance of dark areas
(2) Areas the player lit should still look accurate

In real life, you only wear night vision when you go into dark areas. In a brightly lit area, nightvision would wash out and present a less compelling image than unassisted vision.

My proposal:

Make Nightvision easy to toggle on and off - the player only puts on your nightvision goggles when going into a dark area. This still rewards the player for lighting things up, while still allowing a thematically appropriate filter that truely does improve visibility when venturing outside the base. In brightly lit areas, nightvision can still look terrible - it's not for here. Splitting out Identification, friend or foe (IFF) functionality would allow the player to have an accurate picture of what's going on at all times.

These were some quick mockups trying to illustrate the concept - ideally there's be some proper green filtering and soft edges going on.
Default State
Night Vision - Washing out Brightly Lit areas, making dark areas visible
Night Vision Off with IFF module on
Night Vision On with IFF module on
I agree with nolcotin, nightvision should be toggleable with a key, and if you want to make it realistic remember that light saturate the sensor, it doesn't make the view clear ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by daniel34 »

vedrit wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't use the nightvision goggles at all? I don't even research them.
I usually research them because I research everything, but I've actually never used them.
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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by KatherineOfSky »

+ another 1, for the sepia/gray tone pics. Sooooo much better than that eye-piercing green.
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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Zeblote »

MiloRK wrote:Although I agree with some of the new night vision criticism--it could use some work--I really like the thinking behind it! Rewarding placement of lighting is an interesting idea, and other optic benefits could add to the usefulness of researching and wearing night vision goggles. Here's my stab at a night vision concept:
Normal Vision.png
Night Vision.png
Maybe you could upgrade your optics to get thermal vision:
Normal Vision_1.png
Night Vision_1.png
Great Friday Facts, as always!
I really like that idea too :D

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Jürgen Erhard »

Proxy wrote:First.
And can't wait to see the Final Night vision effect :D
You misspelled "Lame". It has only four letters, not five, and doesn't begin with an F. ;-)

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Deadly-Bagel »

Well I'm colour deficient so don't hold a high opinion of my input here (first image is literally how I see the game anyway, nightvision for me just removes darkness) but it appears I'm not the only one who thinks the last image looks like someone barfed all over it. I much prefer the second image, it's crisp and clean.
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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Xterminator »

The night vision... I appreciate the idea of trying to make if realistic by adding some green, and honestly picture 2 is tolerable I think. The 3rd picture actually looks the worse to me by far.
I personally never use the goggles because of the green, plus I put a ton of lights down anyway so never needed them.

Thermal goggles would be pretty awesome! You would need to easily be able to turn them on or off with a hotkey though. Same goes for the night vision.

The ability to not have to restart the game a ton of times sounds great too!
Image Image Image

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by DaveMcW »

+1 for picture #2.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by Grimtongue »

Night vision should have a toggle keybind. It's annoying to remove it from the armor and then put it back.

All of those night vision images just looked beyond awful to me. I never liked the way nightvision is implemented in Factorio, so I just place tons of lamps everywhere.


My feedback is that you should implement a keybind to toggle night vision on/off.

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Re: Friday Facts #168 - Nightvision Nightmare

Post by IronCartographer »

My suggestion would be to add a hotkey to toggle the night vision, and possibly the flashlight. Definitely not a fan of the 3rd image's green overload; it's like going back in time to before 0.12...which would be fine if there were an upgrade:

Another thing to consider if going for upgrades / thermal vision is a Mk. 2 night vision. It could use processing units to highlight biters and give a massive improvement by applying High Dynamic Range Imaging / rendering to night time, compensating for the otherwise blinding effect one would realistically expect from using night vision in the presence of bright lamps.

This would give another source of progression; early, cheap utility of night vision which makes everything rather green early on...and then amazing enemy-highlighting, nearly daylight visibility with higher tech requirements.

Adding those features would help tremendously in justifying the 2x3 grid size requirement.
Adil wrote:What's that about "nightvision must be green" nonsense?
You know, it's not 80's today, cameras get better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4ZIdu1adWg
and factorio guy is in future.
These days I play without nightvision tint, but it seems that the best one is that with gray uniluminated areas: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38435&start=20#p229988

Reiterated for that nightvision video demo: Realistic nightvision doesn't have to be green-tinted with advanced tech!
Last edited by IronCartographer on Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:29 am, edited 7 times in total.

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