Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

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Sigma1
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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by Sigma1 »

Moo Rhy wrote: If the cooling fails the reactor explodes and creates a ruin that creates a ton of pollution forever. The radiation destroys everything that comes too close. The player, cars, robots. Which means the ruin can't be erased. The same happens if the reactor is destroyed during an attack.
I'd say maybe a radiation shielded vehicle or something could be used for removing the wreck but otherwise I support this.
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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by MalcolmCooks »

Sigma1 wrote:
Moo Rhy wrote: If the cooling fails the reactor explodes and creates a ruin that creates a ton of pollution forever. The radiation destroys everything that comes too close. The player, cars, robots. Which means the ruin can't be erased. The same happens if the reactor is destroyed during an attack.
I'd say maybe a radiation shielded vehicle or something could be used for removing the wreck but otherwise I support this.
Cool I like this idea
It could be done with a new damage type, radiation, which buildings are resistant to, but players, vehicles and so on are vulnerable to. The wreck could have an area effect of radiation damage that decreases with distance, and also emits a lot of pollution.

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Sigma1
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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by Sigma1 »

Sigma1 wrote:
Moo Rhy wrote: If the cooling fails the reactor explodes and creates a ruin that creates a ton of pollution forever. The radiation destroys everything that comes too close. The player, cars, robots. Which means the ruin can't be erased. The same happens if the reactor is destroyed during an attack.
I'd say maybe a radiation shielded vehicle or something could be used for removing the wreck but otherwise I support this.
Also, radioactive mutant biters.
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ssilk
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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by ssilk »

Second try: And nobody recognizes the "more interesting" stuff:
Image
That curves have a wider radius.
Looks like radius of 19 tiles.

See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12603 and viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19953

Image
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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by MeduSalem »

ssilk wrote:That curves have a wider radius.
Looks like radius of 19 tiles.
Maybe... But I can barely see a difference if there's one. Also they are wrecked anyways so no train will go there. :P

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by Mehve »

It's not that I didn't notice that rails were less sharply curved, but the picture of these rails comes within the context of an exposition about how terrain decoration no longer needs to rigidly follow the grid. So I wasn't about to get my hopes about these representing functional rails.

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by psychomuffin »

Once again, I love your FFFs. I still can't believe you are doing so much hard work on a game that I believe is finish. You all have under-promised and over-delivered. I love the nuclear power idea. Please tell us more about your thoughts for the fuel. Will it be something that is mined? Maybe it will take some effort to figure out where to mine? Whatever you do it will be great.

Looking forward to 0.15 I want to binge more Factorio, but will wait =-)

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by Extended »

psychomuffin wrote:Please tell us more about your thoughts for the fuel. Will it be something that is mined? Maybe it will take some effort to figure out where to mine?
Actually that's an amazing idea! Rather than having those regular mines, we could have to use technologies to find the uranium and we would need to grab with special machines.

Also, I think that nuclear waste would be a great thing to add, with the pools to cool them down for a while.

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by Engimage »

ssilk wrote:Second try: And nobody recognizes the "more interesting" stuff:
Image
That curves have a wider radius.
Looks like radius of 19 tiles.

See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12603 and viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19953

Image
The idea of this particular picture was to show the new feature to add a random decal to the terrain. It has nothing to do with real tracks I am sure. Destroyed tracks are just cool to see.
And looking at them again I ask the question - why rail track recipe contains iron sticks instead of wooden poles...

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by Engimage »

As for nuclear power.

I really like the idea of separating heat exchanger from the source of heat. This opens opportunities for different types of heat generators such as coal, oil products, nuclear etc.
For example if you make heat exchanger 1x3 you can even keep old boilers in the game while removinge their piping abilities to make it like this:

Code: Select all

              steam
-------------^^---------------
> water                        > water
------------------------------
|  boiler  |  boiler | boiler |
------------------------------
which generally reflects current development design (2x3)

Another bright side for this concept is one of major differences between burner boiler and heat exchanger namely pollution. Heat exchanger does not generate one (in nuclear design) while the burner itself does. As a result you might go for introducing different types and grades of heal generators which have different efficiencies and pollution.


Another idea for new boiler design could be like this:

Code: Select all

------------------------------
> Steam                       > Steam
------------------------------
> Water                       > Water
------------------------------
So instead of making a perpendicular output make both substances interconnectable. The only problem that arises here is a possible interconnection of output pipes. This can be fixed by either connecting an underground pipe or by adding a new type of a pipe to the game (like high pressure pipe or heat pipe whatever) which will not interconnect with common pipes and will have a different color to help understand the designs better.

In any case I do support the idea of reactors being 6x6 size as opposed to current 5x5 obviously due to new boiler being 2x3. There is no need to complicate interconnection between reactor and boilers (heat exchangers). The only excuse for 5x5 could be if 3 heat exchangers per side on 2 sides (total 6 heat exchangers) would be enough to operate a reactor, leaving 1 side open for cooling tower (if it is meant to connect to reactor at all) and one side open for inserters.

I am also not sure how could you unterstand if a boiler (heat exchanger) should output a normal steam (for steam engines) or high pressure high temperature one (for turbines). Maybe those should be 2 different grades for heat exchangers?

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by RobertTerwilliger »

Spectacular desert! And broken rails look indeed organic there.

Nuclear power also look cool, HOWEVER it doesn't look like the game will force us not to use blueprints for nuclear energy, like it was promised before. It looks like we'll still use BPs, just few instead of one (modules of power plant) - probably with manual or semi-blueprinted piping.
Keep in mind that blueprint sharing will make possible avoiding dealing with high-tier reactors by yourself - just take existing design and feel good.
If explosions will be possible - the new level of griefing will arise! Share explosive blueprints to devastate bases without joining the game! :twisted:
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They just need some bread and faith in themselves,
BUT
THE TSAR IS GIVEN TO THEM IN EXCHANGE!
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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by AncientCulture »

These rails look great.

However. What is the lore behind? Why does the alien planet has some old rails? Would it mean that somebody was here before? If so, where is he? Are the more ruins? Are there maybe old treasure in form of technology laying around, which I could analyse in order to get some late technology early or to speed up the research to it by 30% or 50%???

Just curious if there is more behind as it may seem in the first place ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by bobingabout »

I didn't read all this topic, but....

3x2 boilers? wouldn't 2x2 be a better option? It's probably just my opinion.

Perhaps 2x3 isn't such a bad option, as long as modders can create them in alternate sizes.


Any news on using fluids for fuel yet?
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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by golfmiketango »

Holy crap that desert looks amazingly good.

Lots of complicated discussion in this thread. The new boilers look... confusing. Truth be told I'm pretty sure I don't fully understand the current ones. Looks like the mysteries of fluid dynamics in factorio will become more central to successful gameplay going forward.
Moo Rhy wrote:I don't see why boilers should produce hot water. There's no use for it, so leave it away. Boilers should convert all of the water to steam. Similar to the current boiler we get something like this:
rest of post
Impressive use of Visio (or something like that) in a first post, Moo Rhy. Welcome to the Factorio forums! Not sure I understand all the stuff but I think your turbine idea sounds pretty cool.

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by bobingabout »

golfmiketango wrote:The new boilers look... confusing.
Basically... they have 2 fluid boxes. The input fluid box is an input with 2 connections, and like the old boiler (And steam engine) is basically a pipe where fluid can flow both into and out of it. This is the one with connections on both ends, and is used for water. The intention being a water input, and an output to the next boiler.
The other fluid box is the one on the middle of the side, for steam output. This steam is basically a fluid fuel for steam engines.

In theory, many other entities could act this way to daisy chain a single input, however, they don't, because this limits changing recipes.
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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by hitzu »

ssilk wrote: That curves have a wider radius.
No, they don't.
Image

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by Gertibrumm »

PacifyerGrey wrote:I am also not sure how could you unterstand if a boiler (heat exchanger) should output a normal steam (for steam engines) or high pressure high temperature one (for turbines). Maybe those should be 2 different grades for heat exchangers?
- use one boiler on nuclear powerplant -> powerplant overheates and single boiler can hardly bear the high temperatures
- use many boilers on nuclear powerplant -> powerplant is kept cool and the steam will be relatively low temperature

- use one steam engine (low throughput) -> pressure will build up quicker
- use many steam engines -> pressure levels are lower

- use turbine for nuclear power
- use steam engine for low power coal power (coal is low power only in factorio)

We dont need different grades or levels for heat exchangers, just use different arrangements to achieve your wanted pressure and temperature levels.

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by psychomuffin »

Extended wrote:
psychomuffin wrote:Please tell us more about your thoughts for the fuel. Will it be something that is mined? Maybe it will take some effort to figure out where to mine?
we could have to use technologies to find the uranium and we would need to grab with special machines.

nuclear waste would be a great thing to add
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Maybe a probe, or scan, or something that roams around surveying? I just thought with nuclear, a little fuel will go a long way, so it can't be like how you harvest a ton of coal.

I also like the nuclear waste option.

Also, depleted uranium ammo anyone?

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by Jesperhk »

Just want to say, that I have never been more grateful for a purchase in my life as a gamer, the way factorio develops is just so great, and the team really needs to know how much we appreciate the hard work they do.
Remember the first time i started the game, i was just blown away!, and since that time, you guys just kept going and going. :D Love your game and i really love the way you work!

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Re: Friday Facts #167 - Reactors Operational

Post by ssilk »

hitzu wrote:
ssilk wrote: That curves have a wider radius.
No, they don't.
Image
Don't take my hopes away so simple! :cry:
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