Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

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Piroko
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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by Piroko »

A small bonus if you go for x86-64, I believe all CPUs that support that also support SSE2. If you haven't already, try to compile with the SSE and SSE2 flags set and see if it makes a difference ;)

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by devilwarriors »

Tilendor wrote:
keyboardhack wrote:I guess all 32 bit users should be allowed a refund.
Giving the option seems honorable. They still do have a completely working game with the current version. Just means they don't get upgrades.

Also, the upgrade check logic should respect their system stats. Don't attempt to auto-update 32 bit systems when it is impossible.
If they were just disabling the multiplayer, yeah they would still have the full game in singleplayer.

But since they will stop 32 bits after 0.14, they will never have the full game. As stable and this game is most of the time, it still just an alpha version of the game.
They are effectively being kicked out of the alpha and will never have the full game on their 32 bits system and probably should get a refund if they want.

But well same thing happened with space engineers and I doubt anyone ever got a refund for that.

And I'm personally happy they choose to focus on 64 bits :P

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by SomeDuder »

To be perfectly plain... Anyone that, in the year 2016, is complaining about a lack of a 32-bit executable for a videogame should be taken out back and shot.

Seriously though, these are probably the same people who are still using Windows XP, write "Microsoft" as "Micro$oft" and feel like Norton Antivirus is a competitive and complete anti-virus suite.

No, wait, I wasn't kidding - where's my gun

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by hoho »

Masterfox wrote:Actually, this is not true. My PC still has a 32-bit processor, an AMD Sempron 140 and still is able to play factorio with bobs mods. So that is really just not true.
Sempron 140 is a 64bit CPU:
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-S ... OX%29.html
Piroko wrote:A small bonus if you go for x86-64, I believe all CPUs that support that also support SSE2. If you haven't already, try to compile with the SSE and SSE2 flags set and see if it makes a difference ;)
Just compiling with the flags set rarely gives any sort of measurable impact.

Usually you need to specially tailor your data structures and loops to match the SIMD registers and instruction sets to get a meaningful improvement. To get a good improvement, you'd have to do all that and use intrinsics to get more or less optimal use of the instruction set.

source:
reading forums on real-time ray tracing for a few years.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by HammerPiano »

I have a friend with 32bit system, and I am pretty sad because we planned to play bob's mods together :(
Hope he will buy 64bit system soon...
Gosh, one month until 0.15!!!!! So excited for the new features :D
By the way, what circuit network features will you add in 0.15?

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by huhn »

you guys should change the system requirements on steam as soon as possible.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by The Phoenixian »

SomeDuder wrote:To be perfectly plain... Anyone that, in the year 2016, is complaining about a lack of a 32-bit executable for a videogame should be taken out back and shot.

Seriously though, these are probably the same people who are still using Windows XP, write "Microsoft" as "Micro$oft" and feel like Norton Antivirus is a competitive and complete anti-virus suite.

No, wait, I wasn't kidding - where's my gun
So... anyone who has to save money?

Because seriously, not all of us have the budget for good or even recent systems and for some of us $20 for a hundred hour plus game that runs on a toaster is actually a selling point.

Because you know... Money. Not everybody has a decent or significant disposable budget and some of us like to do things other than eat, sleep, and work too.
The greatest gulf that we must leap is the gulf between each other's assumptions and conceptions. To argue fairly, we must reach consensus on the meanings and values of basic principles. -Thereisnosaurus

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by hoho »

The Phoenixian wrote:So... anyone who has to save money?
Linux is free and Factorio works great there :)

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by Zeblote »

The Phoenixian wrote:Because seriously, not all of us have the budget for good or even recent systems and for some of us $20 for a hundred hour plus game that runs on a toaster is actually a selling point.

Because you know... Money. Not everybody has a decent or significant disposable budget and some of us like to do things other than eat, sleep, and work too.
Then... don't play the game. If it starts holding back people with capable hardware by wasting developer time, it's a good time to abandon it.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by kovarex »

Zeblote wrote:The new rails no longer require a diagonal piece between curves and can make perfect circles, right?
They obviously require it, this is just new graphics.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by Zeblote »

kovarex wrote:
Zeblote wrote:The new rails no longer require a diagonal piece between curves and can make perfect circles, right?
They obviously require it, this is just new graphics.
Maybe you can replace curve-diagonal-curve combos with a single texture that doesn't have the awkward bend?

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by The Phoenixian »

Zeblote wrote:
The Phoenixian wrote:Because seriously, not all of us have the budget for good or even recent systems and for some of us $20 for a hundred hour plus game that runs on a toaster is actually a selling point.

Because you know... Money. Not everybody has a decent or significant disposable budget and some of us like to do things other than eat, sleep, and work too.
Then... don't play the game. If it starts holding back people with capable hardware by wasting developer time, it's a good time to abandon it.
What the devs do is their choice, If they want to take action that will cut off my and other's access to Factorio... Fine.

I reserve the right to be sad and pissed to lose access to the future of the game I enjoy, but if they feel that it is necessary that is their perogative.

However, I take offense when people start throwing death threats my way. When someone says that I and people like me should be taken out and shot, I would think that my emotion there is rather understandable.
The greatest gulf that we must leap is the gulf between each other's assumptions and conceptions. To argue fairly, we must reach consensus on the meanings and values of basic principles. -Thereisnosaurus

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by Masterfox »

Oh well, I guess thanks to the help of some forum members, I am gonna have a talk with the kind person who once set up my PC. Side note? If I install WinXP64 over WinXP32, will I keep all my files?

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by SoulForge »

Masterfox wrote:Oh well, I guess thanks to the help of some forum members, I am gonna have a talk with the kind person who once set up my PC. Side note? If I install WinXP64 over WinXP32, will I keep all my files?
If I recall correctly......No.

Its not a supported upgrade path. 64 Bit XP wasn't really a big thing for home users.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by ledow »

I manage and deploy systems for a living.

I haven't deployed 32-bit Windows for nearly 10 years now. 32-bit is dead.

All your hardware nowadays will support 64-bit, the OS might not but there's no need to stay on 32-bit OS. Don't forget - on a 32-bit OS or processor you can NEVER use more than 4Gb for everything all together, including Windows and things like shared GPU memory if you use that.

If Factorio is what makes you upgrade, that might leave a bad taste, but it's not Factorio forcing your hand so much as just getting into the modern world.

Everyone had to upgrade to Pentium's to play Quake, and then they discovered they needed a graphics card, and so on. These things come around and only affect you if you're so far behind the cutting edge that you're unsupportable.

And everyone that has 7 or 8 has had a way to get to 64-bit Windows for free for a long time now. It might involve a reinstall but you can get it using your existing keys.

I still laugh when I run across a colleague insisting on installing 32-bit OS or still using 32-bit OS images. It's been time to move one for a long while. Windows Server doesn't even support 32-bit any more. It won't be long before consumer OS follow suit.

Honestly, I'm not sure how you survive with only 4Gb any more, and I'm a programmer from the era where 48Kb was more memory than you'd ever thought you'd use. Once you take off hardware allocations, a Gb for basic Windows operation, and then tot up things like your web browser and background program usage, you don't have much left from 4Gb any more.

I work in schools. 8Gb is our basic desktop install. And that's just for tiny little kids running Word and maybe a browser tab or two. I won't tell you what the high-end or CAD desktops or servers are running. But even the virtual machines on them can't do much with only 4Gb allocated to them.

Sorry to say, but if your hardware isn't 64-bit, you haven't been running an awful lot of Steam games or anything else for many years. And it's probably time for an upgrade, even if it will only involve an OS reinstall for most of the hardware still running out there.

And, yes, I had similar issues back in the days of Windows 3.0 requiring more than 1Mb of RAM, and a 32-bit "real mode" processor, so I'm hardly unsympathetic. But it's time to move on, really.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by ledow »

Oh.

And I throw out dozens of machines a year. Those machines have all been 64-bit capable for many years.

But, literally, no-one will take them off my hands except WEEE-registered recycling companies who CHARGE ME to take them away.

So if you're desperately poor and can't afford a 64-bit machine at all, find your local recycling company, or ask local schools or businesses, or even ask your local recycling/refuse tip - I've often had to just throw them away because nobody wanted them! (and if it's less than 1 tonne a year, that's allowed).

Apart from hard drives (because of the data) we're throwing out stuff that would play 64-bit Factorio all the time.
Though you have just missed the Summer purge, so it's a bit unfortunate on the timing.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by SoulForge »

Honestly it should be a non-issue.

I know some people can't upgrade all that often but if you are on such aging hardware this affects you...............Not sure what to say.

You can buy a sandybridge era workstation with a 6 core with HT processor on newegg for under $400. I just bought one to put in my living room for entertainment with a 770 GTX I had laying around.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by Piroko »

Masterfox wrote:Oh well, I guess thanks to the help of some forum members, I am gonna have a talk with the kind person who once set up my PC. Side note? If I install WinXP64 over WinXP32, will I keep all my files?
You should go for Win7 64 Bit if your PC has enough Ram (2GB recommended). Windows XP 64 Bit had lots of issues and was quickly discontinued.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by 3trip »

32 bit is dead, long live 32 bit!

Good call devs, I'm glad you made the call.

Side note, any word on belt optimization?

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by huhn »

The Phoenixian wrote:
Zeblote wrote:
The Phoenixian wrote:Because seriously, not all of us have the budget for good or even recent systems and for some of us $20 for a hundred hour plus game that runs on a toaster is actually a selling point.

Because you know... Money. Not everybody has a decent or significant disposable budget and some of us like to do things other than eat, sleep, and work too.
Then... don't play the game. If it starts holding back people with capable hardware by wasting developer time, it's a good time to abandon it.
What the devs do is their choice, If they want to take action that will cut off my and other's access to Factorio... Fine.

I reserve the right to be sad and pissed to lose access to the future of the game I enjoy, but if they feel that it is necessary that is their perogative.

However, I take offense when people start throwing death threats my way. When someone says that I and people like me should be taken out and shot, I would think that my emotion there is rather understandable.
you are not losing access to the future of the game. you just need a new OS.
if you are going to update the same OS to the same version in 64 bit (which in nearly all cases works for free.).
or if you switch to a free linux OS.

see it like you have to install new GPU driver just a little bit more extrem.

the minimum system requirement for factorio is a dual core. i can't remember a dual core that is not 64 bit capable. (there is an intel ATOM but don't ask me which of them)

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