Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:20 am

But you don't want to overpower the personal roboport, nor do I particularly want it to have too large a range because your robots will fly off to fix a wall on the other side of your base and you end up having to wait for it to return.

I think simply having greater range while in vehicles would suffice. Also some other tweaks such as vehicular roboports will not activate if within a roboport network. Basically when parked in your base, you want your base's infrastructure to be repairing and building and not the vehicle's stuff because as long as you can't read vehicle contents you won't be able to restock it automatically.

I'm not really fussed on being able to read vehicle contents, or have vehicle logistic slots. I'm intrigued by the idea of needing to set up a complex auto loader because this is endgame content and much of the rest of the game is already quite simple. I envisage an unloading bay, perhaps using belts to move it along, then a loading bay. It will be a fun puzzle as to how to ensure that the right quantities of everything end up in the vehicle.
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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Mendel » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:38 pm

How about (expensive) tech to make robots fly much faster?

Currently I think roboports are far from overpowered. In fact I was hanging in there in a game multiplayer game where a couple of good players finished the game in 6 hours and stuff like rails and roboport simply wasn´t necessary at all, to the contrary I think it would have made the run slower. (and I slowed them down with my questions too)

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Mengmoshu » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:42 pm

I don't know if it's possible to have the Personal Roboport get different stats when equipped to a vehicle. However, I think it is already possible with mods to exclude the Personal Roboport from vehicles, and have a second kind of portable Roboport for vehicles that is excluded from player armor.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by ajm.nethunt » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:50 pm

EQUIPMENT GRIDS ON VEHICLES DSJLKFADJSLKFJASLKFADSJKLFSDJKLFSADJKLFDSAJKLF

PLEASE GIVE VEHICLES AN ATTRIBUTE LIKE THIS!!!

EquipmentSlots = {
{name="gun-slot-0", Allowed = {type="vehicle-machinegun",type="tank-cannon",type="rocket-launcher"},
{name="gun-slot-1", Allowed = {type="*"}} #* counts as a wildcard; in this example, any 'gun' could be put into this slot
{name="equipment-grid", Allowed = {type="energy-shield-equipment",...}
}


Implementing it this way would be VERY flexible and solve many problems, like you don't need different 'tank' types anymore, you just hook up a flamethrower add some armor and boom you are done.
A note about wildcard support: you should do this because then vehicles don't have to be modified by everyone that mods a new kind of gun; although a vehicle could be restricted to only slot particular things due to a narrow intended purpose (although each Allowed tag could certainly be modded by another mod!)

Also - you need to somehow open up the possibility of modders making new module types that do different things. Right now we can't add types, so I don't know how we could implement modules with new behaviors, like increasing resistances or engine efficiency or something just as examples of things current modules can't do.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Covertcreeper » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:17 pm

I was wondering about the new server finder, me and a friend have been trying to play for a long time and always got an error "couldn't establish communication with the server" or something of the like. We always assumed it was a problem with our port forwarding. Will the new server hoster/finder automatically port forward, or will that be a thing that's still required?

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by kovarex » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:55 pm

Covertcreeper wrote:I was wondering about the new server finder, me and a friend have been trying to play for a long time and always got an error "couldn't establish communication with the server" or something of the like. We always assumed it was a problem with our port forwarding. Will the new server hoster/finder automatically port forward, or will that be a thing that's still required?
It is using a nat punching, which should solve these problem often.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by hitzu » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:55 pm

kovarex wrote:
Covertcreeper wrote:I was wondering about the new server finder, me and a friend have been trying to play for a long time and always got an error "couldn't establish communication with the server" or something of the like. We always assumed it was a problem with our port forwarding. Will the new server hoster/finder automatically port forward, or will that be a thing that's still required?
It is using a nat punching, which should solve these problem often.
What is nat punching? I have the same problem, even though we both can connect to any public server.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by DaemosDaen » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:32 am

I had a nice long post typed up and realized I could easily sum it up as this: Are modular vehicles going to be added to the game, if so do you have any ideas? I hope it's not as simple as adding the existing PA grid on higher tier vehicles. I know I have an idea on them.

Vehicles get 4 smaller grids (still a slightly higher total spaces than the PA of that tier. I'll use the car as my example:
When you craft the base car with the "vehicular modular components" you get the "Modular car".

Grid 1: power grid: This would be a 4x4 grid (just large enough for a fusion reactor) that starts off with 4 engines (yes the yellow ones used to make the car, these only work in vehicles) you can add more engines which would consume fuel faster but produce more power or you can swap them out for/add solar panels, batteries of just remove the whole assembly and put in a fusion reactor (also any other type of modular power generation could go here) The whole point of this grid would be to produce power for the modular pieces and any electric engine

"grid 2" Propulsion grid: Starts with 4 yellow engines, these consume fuel not power, but switching them out for electric engines would have them consume power instead. (Simply have 1 engine able to power 1 electric engine.) that would give people their "green" option for vehicles. Also would could remove engines to lower the amount of fuel consumed at the cost of acceleration.

"Grid 3" Weapons grid: only has 2 slots, 1 is a swappable weapon I always imagined that your just reaching up and grapping the weapon to fire, so the player weapons would work, or special ones could be created for this slot. The second slot would be for a Personal Laser Defense, the PLD works like it does now except it would also control the gun to fire at the closest biter/spatter. PLD would not work if no one is in the car. When swapping out, ammo gets dumped into and pulled from the trunk.

Grid 4 would be like the PA grid for the same tier, maybe even be the same size as the modular armor. here you could insert more batteries, shields, night vision mechanics, more personal laser defenses and discharge defenses. Exoskeleton Equipment really shouldn't have a use in a vehicle as it's supposed to help you walk faster, and vehicle speed could be handled by improvinging engines/adding engines.

Bonus items: vehicle only items; besides the engines controlling movement speed, you could also add a automatic capsule launcher, vehicle only weapon (the tank cannon would be a tank only weapon) that launches grenades, effect capsules (poison/slowdown), or robot capsules. These fire much slower than if you threw them, but is a cool idea imo. Automatic fire needs a PLD as with the rest of the weapons.

To create tiers, could just add more engine and grid spaces. The tank would have a second weapons slot maybe, and you can switch between the weapons, but aside from that would work the same.

Everything past the start of the post is simply my opinion to make vehicles more fun than the MA/PA and to be more useful. This could even be applied to the spider monstrosity showed a few FFF back.

P.S. the tank ammo damage needs a bump up. Tanks are supposed to be the end all be all of land warfare, right now that's the flamethrower. A tank round to the face should kill a behemoth biter/spiter.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Neemys » Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:25 pm

hitzu wrote:
kovarex wrote:
Covertcreeper wrote:I was wondering about the new server finder, me and a friend have been trying to play for a long time and always got an error "couldn't establish communication with the server" or something of the like. We always assumed it was a problem with our port forwarding. Will the new server hoster/finder automatically port forward, or will that be a thing that's still required?
It is using a nat punching, which should solve these problem often.
What is nat punching? I have the same problem, even though we both can connect to any public server.
NAT punching have been explained in FFF#143. Dedicated server should do that automatically, like stated in FFF it does not work everytime but should work most of the time.

If your are hosting a server take care that no firewall is blocking connexion, NAT punching can't do anything about them. If you are under windows OS, the default firewall will block factorio server by default (it block all incoming connexion by default, see here on how to add a specific rule to firewall without deactivating it, port number should be set to the port configured on factorio server, if not changed it's 34197 by default, you need to allow incoming connexion for factorio's exe, UDP only).
Want more space restriction ? Or maybe you want to be forced to use train for other thing than ore and oil ? Try Building Platform Mod !

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by bobingabout » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:53 pm

Another point of interest for equipment.

When using the exoskeleton (or any movement-bonus-equipment item), the acceleration of the vehicle is increased, but where locomotives and cargo wagons have a max_speed, this stat is unaffected. Meaning such speed bonus equipment is useless for cargo wagons.

So... I suggest adding increased max speed to the list of things I'd like to see.

Also... I'd like to see the ability to create a piece of equipment capable of using more than one of the suggested stat improvements simultaneously.
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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by DaemosDaen » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:22 am

bobingabout wrote:Another point of interest for equipment.

When using the exoskeleton (or any movement-bonus-equipment item), the acceleration of the vehicle is increased, but where locomotives and cargo wagons have a max_speed, this stat is unaffected. Meaning such speed bonus equipment is useless for cargo wagons.

So... I suggest adding increased max speed to the list of things I'd like to see.

Also... I'd like to see the ability to create a piece of equipment capable of using more than one of the suggested stat improvements simultaneously.

I dunno about cars or tanks since I can never keep them in a straight line, but I've had trains up to like 300km/h before it had to slow slow down to stop.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by bobingabout » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:59 am

DaemosDaen wrote:
bobingabout wrote:Another point of interest for equipment.

When using the exoskeleton (or any movement-bonus-equipment item), the acceleration of the vehicle is increased, but where locomotives and cargo wagons have a max_speed, this stat is unaffected. Meaning such speed bonus equipment is useless for cargo wagons.

So... I suggest adding increased max speed to the list of things I'd like to see.

Also... I'd like to see the ability to create a piece of equipment capable of using more than one of the suggested stat improvements simultaneously.

I dunno about cars or tanks since I can never keep them in a straight line, but I've had trains up to like 300km/h before it had to slow slow down to stop.
My Locomotive MK3 has a speed limit set to 2, and can quite easily top out at 432km/h if you give it enough time on a long stretch... or just no cargo wagons.
My Armoured Locomotive has a speed limit set to 1, which is lower than the base game. I think that puts it at a speed limit of 216km/h. It takes about a minute to reach this speed with 2 cargo wagons. Adding about 6x Vehicle engine units (My WIP Vehicle version of an exoskeleton, with double the effect) Allows it to reach this top speed in about 3 seconds.

The thought of the cargo wagon having a speed limit too crossed my mind, so I tried it without cargo wagons for the same result.

I also did the reverse and had a Locomotive MK3 pull an armoured cargo wagon (Remember, the locomotive MK3 has a top speed of 432, and the armoured cargo wagon 216), which topped out at 216km/h as expected, and adding engines to the wagons resulted in no change.

Therefore, my conclusion, as stated previously is that the exoskeleton type equipment had no effect on the speed limit.


Cars and Tanks do work a little different in theory, as far as I can tell, they have no set speed limit (unless I missed something, but I didn't test as thoroughly), so adding more speed boost equipment should increase their top speed as well. it also seems to effect their rotation speed. I kitted a tank out with a few of these engine units, and it was spinning on the spot at silly fast speeds. That would make it a little hard to control was still fun to try.
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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by RiotGearEpsilon » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:02 pm

Cars, tanks, and trains would benefit from a module that allows them to burn on-board fuel and turn it in to electricity for other modules like robo-ports et al.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by DaemosDaen » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:07 am

bobingabout wrote:My Locomotive MK3 has a speed limit set to 2, and can quite easily top out at 432km/h if you give it enough time on a long stretch... or just no cargo wagons.
My Armoured Locomotive has a speed limit set to 1, which is lower than the base game. I think that puts it at a speed limit of 216km/h. It takes about a minute to reach this speed with 2 cargo wagons. Adding about 6x Vehicle engine units (My WIP Vehicle version of an exoskeleton, with double the effect) Allows it to reach this top speed in about 3 seconds.

The thought of the cargo wagon having a speed limit too crossed my mind, so I tried it without cargo wagons for the same result.

I also did the reverse and had a Locomotive MK3 pull an armoured cargo wagon (Remember, the locomotive MK3 has a top speed of 432, and the armoured cargo wagon 216), which topped out at 216km/h as expected, and adding engines to the wagons resulted in no change.

Therefore, my conclusion, as stated previously is that the exoskeleton type equipment had no effect on the speed limit.


Cars and Tanks do work a little different in theory, as far as I can tell, they have no set speed limit (unless I missed something, but I didn't test as thoroughly), so adding more speed boost equipment should increase their top speed as well. it also seems to effect their rotation speed. I kitted a tank out with a few of these engine units, and it was spinning on the spot at silly fast speeds. That would make it a little hard to control was still fun to try.
I'll take your word on it as I'm not a mod. IMO Exoskeleton Equipment really shouldn't increase speed of vehicles. But all my opinions on that are in my post on Pg. 9.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by RobertTerwilliger » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:19 pm

Personal module idea:
Producing modules - adds crafting speed, or even better: provide multi-crafting! (few items simultaneously)
Personal pump: gives possibility to use fluids in nearby storage tank to manually craft things, that require fluids.

Also, please, give internal battery to exoskeleton - 'cause it shuts down when shields take damage and start draining all the power...
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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by bobingabout » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:11 pm

Yes, that is another one I think should be possible... if you specify a buffer capacity, or an input/output flow limit, it shouldn't matter what the item it, it should have that effect. Currently, about half the equipment grid items, roboports, accumulators and laser turrets are about the only things that use these tags. I think it would be fun, and open even more modding opertunities if you could say... make a steam engine with a built in accumulator, simply by giving it a buffer capacity tag, or as stated by Sideshow Bob in the previous post, add an internal battery to the exoskeleton.
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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Tricorius » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:32 pm

katyal wrote:Vehicles with equipment grids! oooohhhMAGerd!!!!
This. Just...this.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by toltikk » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:15 pm

Shields for the Tank, or make Armor plates with a size of "1x1" like the solar panels, but with adding armor.
A better Engine that will allow the tank to go faster.
A better Engine with more fuel efficiency.
Flamethrower on tank and more weapons for grid.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by bobingabout » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:56 pm

Again, an issue with the exoskeleton based equipment
Walayimuna wrote:I have experimenting with vehicle equipment, after equiping a Mark 3 tank with 10 vehicle overdriven engines, moving around and returning to my base, I have come to a sugestion for a new, and in my opinion very important, vehicle equipment.

Brakes
Apparently, it increases acceleration, but doesn't effect braking :P
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