Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

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ColdPrototype
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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by ColdPrototype » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:02 am

I'd love to see the ability to create fully automated, customizable drones. Think about it, lots of games have great unit customization. But how could that be done in a Factorio-like way? My answer is:
  • A series of drone chassis with some basic characteristics (size of grid, basic health, movement type [spider/flying/tracked])
  • Mountable drone parts and modules (maybe even a combiner that can fit pods together into a single larger robot?), including an AI module defining how the drones will operate (guard player, attracted to signal towers, etc.)
  • A new machine, the installer, that the user configures with a specific gear-grid slot (If the grids get large, probably need a mk2 installer that can install copies of the same item multiple times in different places). It will automatically install components into any modular items you put in it.
You can then create fully automated, customized drone assembly lines. Design them not on some screen, but by defining the actual layout and composition. Very Factorio-like.
Last edited by ColdPrototype on Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by 3trip » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:59 am

Eliminate the engine from factory vehicle construction, let players place them in the equipment grid.

what if the vehicle health was based on components in the equipment grid, with shields and armor pieces taking damage first?

Allow players to place/mount any weapon from the game into the vehicles grid, from the pistol to the cannon. Bonus points for doing this to turrets and trains as well.

AI module, placing one in a vehicle will allow you to control the vehicle's movement, each additional AI placed will allow control of an additional weapon.

Can we get an amphibious module? place 1 to float the player, 2 for the jeep, 3 for the APC (which SHOULD exist) and 4 for the tank. Also the more you add beyond the minimum required, the faster you can travel in the water.

the armor plate idea is good, the plow for the train is good too, but you should be able to mount it to any vehicle.

I'm not sure if customizing drones would be a good idea if you have to customize every one by hand.

also, some option to slow the train if it is shooting an enemy or has a drone deployed would be a good idea.

oh, and can you increase the power of individual aliens and player turrets to decrease their numbers? Save the frames and all that

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Colossus » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:20 am

What about using stacks of resources as basic armor plating? Or at least tiered plates made from nearly a stack of each of the plates.

As you take damage the resources or plates are destroyed.

Different tiers including copper, iron, steel, and alloyed plates (similar to how heavy armor requires steel and copper).

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Kaerius » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:21 am

Klonan wrote:The only equipment that doesn't function "fully" is the roboport equipment in Locomotives and only because the locomotive has no inventory to store robots or items.
Hello, I've been watching your progress from the first days. And finally I have something to say.

Add module grids affecting the inventory in storage to train robots and tools, as if these modules are set to armor the character's inventory increase. also these modules can be specialized, to increase logistic slots, the slots increase the garbage.

Module increases the speed of craft in her arms.

For roboport in grids can be added to improve the working radius.

Sorry for the Google translation.
Russian

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Alastor » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:19 pm

I think a nice feature would be to allow trains to be integrated to the robot network :
- Either locomotive or wagon could get an upgrade that allows for use of logistic robots (mobile logistics roboport or something like that ?). I guess you need inventory, so a wagon.
- Wagons would get upgrades that make them act like logistics chests.

That way, you could design a train that acts as some kind of logistic roboport that connects to the local network when it comes to station somewhere.

Maybe also you could make an upgrade that transforms effectively the inventory of the vehicle into a grid ("machinery wagon" ?). You could design some pretty scary trains like that.
Also with trains, you could design some auto rails builders, although we can probably already do it with "personnal roboport in wagon" + "constrction bots" + "construction blueprinting when building rails". Then maybe allow some way for the player to order a train to advance as long as there is tracks even without player inside (that way with the bots building, it would automatically go to the end) and then go to another destination once blocked for a certain time (aka "go back to base").

Cheers, I'm pretty impationt to try this with my friends though !

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Proxy » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:59 pm

Having a Fusion Reactor on your Car/Tank that is mostly in Combat...
what could Possibly go wrong?

and Congrats for the Multiplayer Accomplishment.

seeing forward to Public Servers.
even tho tehre are some Gameplay Issues.
like the Research being always Shared. or PvP Protection, Griefing. Space/Resources, etc.
but there is mostlikly a mod for that all :p
Let's just wait til the Age of Iron Stars

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by BigD145 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:30 pm

Now we're seeing breaks in the new mod system. A mod updates to .14 on a .13 install and it gets disabled. That's one mod out of many. If the install gets updated to .14 then a couple dozen mods will be disabled because they're still .13?

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Andrzejef » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:24 pm

Hi, - finally registered just to ask this question:
Infering from this (and the picture of tank from FFF that I have no idea how to attach :( ):
Vehicles that have equipment grids can use all of the current equipment; tanks can go faster, have shields, provide night vision to any players in them and so on. The only equipment that doesn't function "fully" is the roboport equipment in Locomotives and only because the locomotive has no inventory to store robots or items.

Does that mean armored train transport (i.e. trains with operating gun turrets)?
My dreams are already made of conveyor belts and rails, please add to this madness :D
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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by The Phoenixian » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:12 pm

ricky3350 wrote:
The Phoenixian wrote:As far as suggestions go, I think the first and most obvious is an onboard electric generator: Just as any real world car can pull energy from the engine to run it's peripherals, so too could vehicles use their fuel stocks in order to power grid equipment.
hitzu wrote::idea: What if the Fusion Reactor would turn the locomotive into an Electric Locomotive and feed it with power :?:
The electric generator should do three things:
  1. Power other modules from fuel
  2. Power the car from stored/produced energy (e.g. batteries/fusion reactor)
  3. Convert movement into energy to charge batteries (like a hybrid car)
I would argue that an electric motor should be it's own module, separate from the electric generator.

Reason being that the two modules serve opposite purposes, and so should be balanced differently. It's a matter of design complexity, (fitting things into the tetris grid) vs functionality and/or maintenance cost (fuel consumption.)

An electric generator naturally increases fuel consumption and places a greater strain on the player's supply lines. It may not seem like much, but if the grid is powering multiple shields, exoskeletons, or roboports on a regular basis, that has the potential to suck up a lot of power, and fuel with it.

As such, it makes perfect sense to give players a relatively small module, (compared to power supplied by the fusion reactor or a similar output of portable solar panels) letting them save grid space in exchange for them taking up the problem of making sure their supply lines are in good order.

An electric motor has the opposite effect, though to a lesser degree.

Ideally, the motor reduces the need to refuel tanks and cars, so long as there is electricity.

Thus an electric motor should be comparatively large: Trading grid space for fuel efficiency.

In the end however, it comes down to the fact that I think that keeping the two separate gives the player an interesting calculation: Is it better for this machine to be fuel efficient? Will I be away from my supply lines long enough for that to be a difference? Or can I afford the extra fuel costs for an efficient generator that will let me fit more stuff onboard?
The greatest gulf that we must leap is the gulf between each other's assumptions and conceptions. To argue fairly, we must reach consensus on the meanings and values of basic principles. -Thereisnosaurus

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by MeduSalem » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:37 pm

The Phoenixian wrote:
ricky3350 wrote:
The Phoenixian wrote:As far as suggestions go, I think the first and most obvious is an onboard electric generator: Just as any real world car can pull energy from the engine to run it's peripherals, so too could vehicles use their fuel stocks in order to power grid equipment.
hitzu wrote::idea: What if the Fusion Reactor would turn the locomotive into an Electric Locomotive and feed it with power :?:
The electric generator should do three things:
  1. Power other modules from fuel
  2. Power the car from stored/produced energy (e.g. batteries/fusion reactor)
  3. Convert movement into energy to charge batteries (like a hybrid car)
I would argue that an electric motor should be it's own module, separate from the electric generator.

Reason being that the two modules serve opposite purposes, and so should be balanced differently. It's a matter of design complexity, (fitting things into the tetris grid) vs functionality and/or maintenance cost (fuel consumption.)

An electric generator naturally increases fuel consumption and places a greater strain on the player's supply lines. It may not seem like much, but if the grid is powering multiple shields, exoskeletons, or roboports on a regular basis, that has the potential to suck up a lot of power, and fuel with it.

As such, it makes perfect sense to give players a relatively small module, (compared to power supplied by the fusion reactor or a similar output of portable solar panels) letting them save grid space in exchange for them taking up the problem of making sure their supply lines are in good order.

An electric motor has the opposite effect, though to a lesser degree.

Ideally, the motor reduces the need to refuel tanks and cars, so long as there is electricity.

Thus an electric motor should be comparatively large: Trading grid space for fuel efficiency.

In the end however, it comes down to the fact that I think that keeping the two separate gives the player an interesting calculation: Is it better for this machine to be fuel efficient? Will I be away from my supply lines long enough for that to be a difference? Or can I afford the extra fuel costs for an efficient generator that will let me fit more stuff onboard?
Might be a good point to refer to the concept/idea ske and I worked out several months ago before module grids for vehicles were a thing:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21982

I'm sure some of it could be useful/integrated into that thought process...

Mainly it came into existence as a way to chose the way you want to provide power to a machine/vehicle yourself rather than the game making the choice for you... and also as a way to reduce the amount of duplicate/tiered items in the crafting menu... but it eventually was deemed as being too complex by some people. Some like micromanagement, others hate it ... which is totally okay by the way.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by Zeno » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:10 pm

- Filter inserter settings that interact with modules inside vehicles. If combinators can change filter inserter settings, you could automate changing modules between different sets! Imagine a tank factory production line controlled by combinators, so there's always x# tanks in storage ready to be used by players, with all the power and shield modules you could want already deployed inside each of them. I could see that being very useful and fun for online play in a high-biter environment.

- Modules that specifically change the stats of the vehicle; inventory size, damage resistances, fuel capacity, even the turning radius and friction... Number of players inside at once. Whatever.

- The ability to add or remove fueling systems based on modules; electrical (battery) charge, combustion fuel, or fluids. Possibly combining them to form hybrid power systems; legitimate steam engines that need both liquid water and combustion fuels to operate (which makes that liquid cargo train car even more imporant, for a water tank to the steam engine!) [Edit - None of the actual graphics need to change, it can all be considered internal. I'm just saying the method the vehicle powers itself and stores that power, could be changed, as an addition to the above point of modules modifying stats]

- The ability to add or remove manual vehicle weapon systems like the tank cannon, the jeep machine gun, or even add player weapons to the vehicle like the flame thrower. Or add combinations of weapons that fire simultaneously or seperately. The vehicle graphic doesn't really need to change, and some choices should be restricted -- it might look wierd when the cargo train stops, opens up, and the tank cannon has no good place to fit.

- Replicate structure features like manufacturing, radar, accumulator charge/release, power pole supply area, module effect transmission, automatic turrets with ammunition, and of course roboport/logistics.

- Combinator modules that replicate combinator features except inside the module space... Possibly combinators that can control how the vehicle behaves? I can hear your coders screaming already so i'll stop here.

Whatever you do though, combining even a basic support for mod features with this modules-in-vehicles, with servers that can have so many players... And if the multiplayer is very stable and fast with even just 30-40 players...
Oh god the player-versus-player and player-versus-environment mods are going to be amazing. Building bases. Repelling biters. Destroying other player bases. :o

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by bobingabout » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:34 pm

You said you want sugestions on things to add to modules? Well... in 0.13, you added a whole bunch of tags on research, and character overides for things like mining reach, inventory space, mining power, movement speed, etc, etc... We already have movement speed equipment, and inventory space probably doesn't fit (It's on the armor itself anyway), but all those other tags... should be able to be on modules. That's my opinion.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.
I also have a Patreon.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by wwdragon » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:02 pm

Project Dark Fox wrote:
wwdragon wrote:"at only the cost of his sanity."
lol nice.


Those vehicle upgrades look like a nice first step in modular vehicles.

Are we gonna be able to swap out their weapons for better ones, too?
Just once I'd like to be able to swap the tank cannon for a multi-missile launcher.
That does sound like fun! :-D

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by aeros1 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:53 pm

looks like now trains may unload and more importantly load themselves without huge tons of belts. And not gobbling logistic robots from base, I like use stationary roboports for base service(repair, re-laying mine fields, and ammo logistics) and automatic restoration also serves problems with ammo logistics especially if you don't load bots with tasks they aren't made for. Like unloading station is fairly simple but loading with necessity to spread all belts makes stations huge. This one would require just small set of logistic passive providers or storages to load train which is yay. And I could spare some place for small set of logistics robots per train.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by aRatNamedSammy » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:16 am

vehicule with equipment :o

so nice :!:

:mrgreen: so great game, so great features, a so great dev team :mrgreen:

cant even dream about next game they will do, they will do better :lol:
Wube Rock 8-)
Teeth for Two (so sorry my bad english)

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by driver » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:23 am

I can still live with an avatar carrying around a lot of stuff in his inventar, but I think for example heavy amor, roboport and a limited amount of active solarcells make much more sense in vehicles.

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by drmason13 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:07 pm

Capture the Flag mode anyone? Mod a "flag module" which can be carried in armour or on vehicles. Let mayhem ensue :D

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by GewaltSam » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:16 pm

malecord wrote:You ask ideas for modules? Some random stuff I not so unusually come to wonder
Portable Factory:
Purpose: faster "manual" crafting
How it works: it crafts stuff in parallel to the player. More modules more crafting. E.g: with 4 modules equipped you can for instance craft 5 green circuits at the same time
If you put something like this in, and it works for trains, too, you could build a moving factory on a big train track system oO Just imagine the possibilities...

Trains stopping in stations, bots fly around and transfer material, and off goes the circuit train to find the wire train... While you engage with your military trains in the east, where the only bridge to your mining trains was overrun. Some advanced Snowpiercer principle we got here :D

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by malecord » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:00 pm

Trainscraft XD

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Re: Friday facts #153 - 0.13 Stable, 0.14 Experimental

Post by mknejp » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:41 am

All of you shouting "electric locomotives" have something new to play with here:
viewtopic.php?f=97&t=31776

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