Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Regular reports on Factorio development.
wwdragon
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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by wwdragon » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:46 pm

Well I just found the rather large downside to this update.... the so called Behomeths.

Right now they are nothing but a recolored, slightly larger blue bug with a SHITLOAD more hps.
This is NOT what a behometh is supposed to be!

1) These were supposed to be introduced so that the number of bugs per base could be VASTLY reduced.
From what I see, they contain the same number of units and half of them are now so called behomeths.
This just creates the same amount of work on the cpu, network traffic, etc etc and provides NO benefits.
At least before these I could kill a base with 24 top tier drones and my favorite weapon!; Now I have to spawn 3 sets of those 24 drones just to finish of that middle sized base. :-(

2) A behometh is supposed to be HUGE; not a tiny little thing that moves just as fast as the flimsiest bug in the game!
Make them as big as an entire colony spawner!
Make em move slow as molassas in January!
Make them small in number!
Make them have higher resists, but only progressively higher hitpoints then the lesser tier ones (not exponentially higher as they are now).
Make them actual siege units specialized for breaking through walls with a low use ranged acid glob and a powerful melee attack.
Make sure their defences still have a hole of laser and electric resits, so that high tech defences can take them down fairly fast.
Make the ai move together, so that a real behometh can do it's job and then let the little guys swarm in around the breach it makes.

Right now the so called behomeths are just a waste of time and space. :-(

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Mangledpork » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:59 pm

wwdragon wrote:Well I just found the rather large downside to this update.... the so called Behomeths.
Behemoths have been in the game since July last year...

I mean, some of your points are valid, but these aren't a new thing. All the discussion was had a while ago.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Zeblote » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:03 am

Mangledpork wrote:
wwdragon wrote:Well I just found the rather large downside to this update.... the so called Behomeths.
. All the discussion was had a while ago.
Doesn't seem like it was concluded though, because he's right :D

Those behemoths need to be much larger and have less of them at once. Wasn't that the whole idea behind them?

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by 5thHorseman » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:05 am

Kaguya wrote:That's the way it works for online card transactions without 3D Secure (Verified by Visa/MasterCode on MasterCard/SafeKey on Amex cards; dunno about other card types)
...
If the merchant doesn't try to do a 3DS verification, then the merchant is in the hook for fraud cases. But if the merchant tries 3DS verification, and the card/issuing bank is not enrolled in 3DS (while the merchant is), the liability is shifted to the bank (same goes with successful 3DS verifications when everything is enrolled), making it a lot more friendly for the merchant when it comes to fraud.
I work closely with credit card companies and can confirm this as well, though it's a bit more generalized: The fault always lies on the shoulders of the least secure party. In this case, it's the Factorio devs as they don't have the infrastructure to be as secure as a bank or credit card company.

It sucks but it's just the cost of doing business. SOMEONE has to be at fault. If it was the consumer, nobody would use credit cards (or at least they wouldn't pay 30% interest rates), and the next obvious place to put the blame is on the people who are using the least secure methods.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by ytsejam » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:35 am

"There have been many complains regarding the terrain generation, we didn't encounter these problems in our games, but we should probably go back to it and tweak it a little."

Please, are you guys saying you never encountered something like this in your 0.13 new maps?
0.13.3 default settings
Default settings, high terrain segmentation everywhere, no oil around... not to mention the annoying small ponds across the map, even with water settings on "starting area only". I made this one for this post, it doesn't seem like a default options map at all.

I understand .13 is experimental right now, but could you guys at least acknowledge it is a bug that didn't exist prior to this release?

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Tricorius » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:09 am

Zeblote wrote:That doesn't make sense, why should you pay a penalty for someone elses fraud?
It's actually crazier than that. With many payment gateways, if a customer issues a chargeback for any reason, that chargeback will cost the merchant at least $20. So if I'm selling an online book for $4.95, and you don't like it. And you call your credit card company and convince them it was an invalid charge, I get that chargeback through my payment gateway. So I'm out $24.95 because you weren't satisfied with the book. (Technically, it's a bit higher than that depending on the processing fee the gateway charges. It could be that I'm out $4.95 + 2.9% + $0.30 + $20. Or about $25.39. It is far cheaper for me to refund your money and eat the $0.44 transaction fee.)

This is the reason that *most* online purchases have a "money-back guarantee".

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by ShredGuy99 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:14 am

Love everything about this update...

Being able to read what is being held in the inserter's "hand" is exciting and should prove fun... I just started playing with this functionality and my mind is racing with new ideas.

Ever since the news about being able to turn belts on and off, I've been waiting in anxious anticipation for this release... This belt functionality works just as I imagined it would and it looks even better!

It's easier than ever connecting red and green wires. The wires becoming highlighted when hovering is a humongous help when troubleshooting.

Arrows and images on the combinators are also a huge help.

The new train and wagon design is fantastic... Being able to reliably line up insterters and chests to the wagons is great. I love that there is room for a power pole between each wagon... This makes for much neater designs in total. The graphics - JUST AWESOME!

"Victory Poling" is basically a thing of the past. Oh well, I'm up for the challenge.

There's so much to love about this release and I still haven't even been able to experiment with all the newness. The possibilities are endless. If you didn't do anything more to the game I would be happy for years to come.

And on top of it all, you were able to turn out multiple bug fixes in the days following the release when no one would have blamed you guys for taking a few days off to collect your thoughts...

BRAVO :!:

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Xtr3m3Shadow » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:01 am

Nice input @Kaguya.
I hope the development team is able to find a way around the high risk card payments that suits their needs.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by torham » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:33 am

0.13 is very stable for me. The only bug I have noticed was the misaligned research button, which has already been fixed in 0.13.2

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by brunzenstein » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:42 am

If Factorio would manage to get with their App into the Apple store (Apple has a very sparse indie section- Factorio would besides the only excellent game, "This War Of Mine" the master of that group) payment problems would be relieved from their shoulders at least for the Apple part.
Apple it taking a hefty slice of 30% but covers with that the back of the developers in the payment section as well as all additional side costs. Its like a flat tax.
I know that Apple is a very complicated and never easy partner but probably worth a try.
The developers I worked with are (nearly all) happily working with Apple.
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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by brunzenstein » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:03 am

of course I liked the photo of he cake I sent to Praha in order to keep the developers spirit high most:
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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by fishycat » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:52 pm

brunzenstein wrote:delicious pic
:shock:

thanks for the pic! I caught myself watching the pic longer than I will admit :D
I bet it tastes like pure sin.

Must. Buy. Cake. Now!!

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by iamwyza » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:53 pm

brunzenstein wrote:If Factorio would manage to get with their App into the Apple store (Apple has a very sparse indie section- Factorio would besides the only excellent game, "This War Of Mine" the master of that group) payment problems would be relieved from their shoulders at least for the Apple part.
Apple it taking a hefty slice of 30% but covers with that the back of the developers in the payment section as well as all additional side costs. Its like a flat tax.
I know that Apple is a very complicated and never easy partner but probably worth a try.
The developers I worked with are (nearly all) happily working with Apple.
Except, I'm not sure how much it really would. The problem isn't that there isn't a secure safe and easy way to buy Factorio already, because there is. The problem is that people want to buy factorio for cheaper and thus go to shady sites to buy keys for steam. There are 4 really good ways to buy Factorio right now that has solid protections in place. So distribution channels are not the problem.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by brunzenstein » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:08 pm

iamwyza wrote: Except, I'm not sure how much it really would. The problem isn't that there isn't a secure safe and easy way to buy Factorio already, because there is. The problem is that people want to buy factorio for cheaper and thus go to shady sites to buy keys for steam. There are 4 really good ways to buy Factorio right now that has solid protections in place. So distribution channels are not the problem.
However - bringing Factorio to the Macintosh App store which is historically incredible weak in the games sector would be a big boost in sales as well as PR as there is no competition on that theater by a far shot.
99% of Mac users stay usually away from any non Apple inhouse-store hosted programs & games. Rarely they install from other sites. What is basically a good thing for them as worms, malicious or spy software are a unicorn on the average Mac users machines - opposite to PC users, a anti spy software is not needed at all. On board security systems are generally sufficient.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by MrGrim » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:02 am

ytsejam wrote:"There have been many complains regarding the terrain generation, we didn't encounter these problems in our games, but we should probably go back to it and tweak it a little."

Please, are you guys saying you never encountered something like this in your 0.13 new maps?
0.13.3 default settings
Default settings, high terrain segmentation everywhere, no oil around... not to mention the annoying small ponds across the map, even with water settings on "starting area only". I made this one for this post, it doesn't seem like a default options map at all.

I understand .13 is experimental right now, but could you guys at least acknowledge it is a bug that didn't exist prior to this release?
This is honestly once of the nicer maps I've seen produced by 0.13 as well.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by DaemosDaen » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:25 am

brunzenstein wrote:However - bringing Factorio to the Macintosh App store which is historically incredible weak in the games sector would be a big boost in sales as well as PR as there is no competition on that theater by a far shot.
99% of Mac users stay usually away from any non Apple inhouse-store hosted programs & games. Rarely they install from other sites. What is basically a good thing for them as worms, malicious or spy software are a unicorn on the average Mac users machines - opposite to PC users, a anti spy software is not needed at all. On board security systems are generally sufficient.
The issue with this is not the idea behind it, but the amount of money it costs to do business with Apple. It's not cheep, they take the largest cut of any distributer. Valve (Steam) still takes a cut but it's no where near as bad. Also any Mac gamer should have steam.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Zeblote » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:56 am

DaemosDaen wrote:
brunzenstein wrote:However - bringing Factorio to the Macintosh App store which is historically incredible weak in the games sector would be a big boost in sales as well as PR as there is no competition on that theater by a far shot.
99% of Mac users stay usually away from any non Apple inhouse-store hosted programs & games. Rarely they install from other sites. What is basically a good thing for them as worms, malicious or spy software are a unicorn on the average Mac users machines - opposite to PC users, a anti spy software is not needed at all. On board security systems are generally sufficient.
The issue with this is not the idea behind it, but the amount of money it costs to do business with Apple. It's not cheep, they take the largest cut of any distributer. Valve (Steam) still takes a cut but it's no where near as bad. Also any Mac gamer should have steam.
From a quick google search, apple and steam both take a 30% cut so there is no difference.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by brunzenstein » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:35 am

Zeblote wrote: From a quick google search, apple and steam both take a 30% cut so there is no difference.
True. The difference between not-caring-at-all (whats in the coding) distributors like Valve, Steam or GOG who take really anybody, even shady figures in is, that Apple runs a painstakingly checking before letting any App into their store.
Apple checks in a rigid multi stage very tough investigation every code line in order to find any possible identity fraud, steal, collection of user data or security breaches. They do virtually everything to keep user data and user identity as secure as possible. Encryption is done onboard on every Apple hardware and therefore only in the users hand.
Therefore is Apple the platform where user date is very seldom compromised. Even the government is seldom and only after a court is ordering them in a verdict to give away a bit. The fight every request in court. They don't let every crook in - so not everybody gets into that first class lounge. Thats the true reason so few games are available for the Apple platform. Most of them are simple carnivores produced in first place for collecting user data.

Actually there are only two games on the App store worth criticizing: "Transistor" and "This War of Mine." alla in all is Apple very weak on the game since - for the mentioned reasons. "Factorio", even in the (said) Alpha stage, would be a welcomed entry. Factorio's alpha ís far more stable then many final PC products sold...

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by self-same-spot » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:59 am

.
Last edited by self-same-spot on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by brunzenstein » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:12 am

self-same-spot wrote:
brunzenstein wrote:Therefore is Apple the platform where user date is very seldom compromised.
Ever heard about The Fappening? :D
Wrong -
quote wikipedia:
"Apple reported that the victims' iCloud account information was obtained using "a very targeted attack on user names, passwords and security questions", such as phishing and brute-force guessing."

German more throughout:
"Im Verfahren gegen den Hacker Ryan Collins stellte sich jedoch heraus, dass die Zugangsdaten nicht wie anfangs vermutet über die Sicherheitslücke in „Find My iPhone“ und iBrute beschafft wurden, sondern über einfache Phishing-Mails an die Prominenten, in denen sie zu einer Anmeldung in der iCloud und GMail aufgefordert wurden."


That means a simple brute-force / Phishing-Mails attack was used e.g. the pure stupidity of the user - that would work on any platform - as beating the owner with a lamp-pole would similar work to squeeze a password to of him

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