Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Regular reports on Factorio development.
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Afforess
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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Afforess » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:20 pm

I expected the release to be June 30th (they just said 'June'), so in my opinion, June 27th is 3 days earlier than expected, and 3 days before their previous deadline.

NAT punching is a PITA, so nice work getting that working. I hope NAT's all die in a fire when ipv6 is fully adopted.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by fishycat » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:22 pm

ooh, so 10 more days... alright, at least we have a number :D

in the meantime i go checkout some meteor observation sites...

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by 5thHorseman » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:23 pm

Sweet. I was hoping I could finish my current world before the next major update, and now it looks like I can. Well, if I actually do it and don't just futz around with robots and biters all week :D
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Rumpelfussballer » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:28 pm

I´m glad we have a somewhat fixed release date!

About NAT punching: Will it work with IPv6 connected computers without real IPv4 adresses? (Because the shitty internet provider of these unlucky people has "due-stack lite" implemented for pseudo IPv4 )

You guys are doing great work, i wish you good luck with the race to the release date!

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by psihius » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:48 pm

vaderciya wrote:I just want the end game to actually mean something ):

It's like we put all this work and stuff into the game, and that's great! But then it just... ends...

It is disappointing to have a game as awesome and fulfilling as factorio to just have this placeholder rocket as the so cold end game..

And we all know that the combat in the game is just a place holder because they felt something needed to be there. But let's be honest, the enemies serve no purpose besides to annoy you with alarm sounds and to harvest purple science.

Maybe the next FFF could be a forum of ideas to improve the late game and combat based on what the players actually want? That'd be cool...
Put Ion cannon mod and you will want like 50-100 of them up there to kill biters at good speed :)
Also Satellite Radar is a good combo.
Suddenly you have a lot of resources to gather and make your factory bigger. Much bigger:)

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Nova » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:56 pm

Yeah, FF 143! :D

(Already 143?? Wow)
Greetings, Nova.
Factorio is one of the greatest games I ever played, with one of the best developers I ever heard of. Image

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by slindenau » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:57 pm

daniel34 wrote:When are you going to release this news on Steam?
Never, because fuck reaching out to the biggest software distribution platform available for games.
My mod: "Auto Deploy Destroyers" (follower robots) viewtopic.php?f=97&t=24545

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Sebb767 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:02 pm

vaderciya wrote:
Jonathan88 wrote:
It is in alpha though...
Whether or not someone puts the "alpha" label on something is irrelevant. Factorio has the most content and least bugs out of pretty much every game. But you clearly missed the point.
I agree. But actually it's a beta - calling it alpha is just an excuse. Not that factorio would need it, tough.

vaderciya wrote:I just want the end game to actually mean something ):

It's like we put all this work and stuff into the game, and that's great! But then it just... ends...

It is disappointing to have a game as awesome and fulfilling as factorio to just have this placeholder rocket as the so cold end game..

And we all know that the combat in the game is just a place holder because they felt something needed to be there. But let's be honest, the enemies serve no purpose besides to annoy you with alarm sounds and to harvest purple science.

Maybe the next FFF could be a forum of ideas to improve the late game and combat based on what the players actually want? That'd be cool...
I kinda agree on this. A more serious threat to you would be awesome, but honestly I'm not sure what would still leave you a sandbox while forcing you to go up. Maybe rivaling enemy factions?

Also, having something in the end is nice, but factorio remains a sandbox game for me. That is, working towards something is nice, but buidling just a big, awesome factory should be the fun of it. What I mean is that more endgame content would be great, but it shouldn't be all you're working for. Ideally, the're isn't even an endgame, but just a next tire (space platform in this case). Maybe you could upgrade to planetal farming, converting it into your escape ship ... ;)

But I trust the devs to do the right thing with factorio, as they mostly did so in the last 4 years.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Joriom » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:03 pm

Basically unless something very unexpected happens (i.e. the office being hit by the meteor and our release server not surviving the impact=)) that is when the release will be.
So, lets investigate...

spaceweather.com
Recent & Upcoming Earth-asteroid encounters:
  • 2016 LK49 - Jun 16 - 30 m
  • 2016 LY8 - Jun 18 - 110 m
  • 2009 CV - Jun 20 - 60 m
  • 2010 NY65 - Jun 24 - 215 m
  • 2002 KL6 - Jnn 24 - 1.4 km
  • 2011 BX18 - Jun 25 - 1.1 km
Dense Meteor Shower over Europe - Jun 24th
This event will change life on this planet as we know it. This is the reason for all the preperations in Europe. All the suppiles and Foreign Troops and the National Guard are in place for quick disaster response. Martial Law and Gun Confiscations will begin shortly after the Impacts stop. This will be a Global Incident but Europe will get the most of it. European centers and labor camps have been activated for refugees of this event. This is what the World has been preparing for. Good Luck…

Needless to add most of the trajectories are estimated to end up in Czech Republic, namely Prague.

Late Jun, 2016, the Delta Aquarids
Like the Eta Aquarids in May, the Delta Aquarid meteor shower in June favors the Southern Hemisphere and tropical latitudes in the Northern Hemisphere. The meteors appear to radiate from near the star Skat or Delta in the constellation Aquarius the Water Bearer. The maximum hourly rate can reach 15-20 meteors. The nominal peak is around Jun 23rd-27th, but, unlike many meteor showers, the Delta Aquarids lack a very definite peak. Instead, these medium-speed meteors ramble along fairly steadily throughout late Jun endangering Norther America, Asia and Europe (especially Prague, Czech Republic).

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by SomeDuder » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:52 pm

slindenau wrote:Never, because fuck reaching out to the biggest software distribution platform available for games.
:roll:

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by brunzenstein » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:54 pm

Joriom wrote:
Basically unless something very unexpected happens (i.e. the office being hit by the meteor and our release server not surviving the impact=)) that is when the release will be.
So, lets investigate...
Luckily WUBE is registered in England, so there is some hope they move in time - thought...

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by devilwarriors » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:09 pm

Ewww.. should have knew they would do like every shit developer and release this at the last possible day of the month they say they will release it..
Well now at least we have a date so I don't have to come here everyday to be disappointed again.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by brunzenstein » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:16 pm

devilwarriors wrote:Ewww.. should have knew they would do like every shit developer and release this at the last possible day of the month they say they will release it..
Exactly the opposite is true.
Shit developer release final software early in a state far more shaky and wobbling then Factorio's alpha (rock stable as a Lighthouse today) ever was.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Sebb767 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:29 pm

brunzenstein wrote:
devilwarriors wrote:Ewww.. should have knew they would do like every shit developer and release this at the last possible day of the month they say they will release it..
Exactly the opposite is true.
Shit developer release final software early in a state far more shaky and wobbling then Factorio's alpha (rock stable as a Lighthouse today) ever was.
+1. I'm waiting too and I'm disappointed by the late releases, but being bad with dates is a developer sickness (I know it, I am one of them :p). And if you look at the product, which is what matters in the end, factorio is extremly stable, very well balanced and has a lot of features as well as superior modding support. They're also pretty open to the community and, counting all of this, you get more than your money's worth. Far more. Thank them for being so good and stop insulting these awesome people.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Unoxxis » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:37 pm

Sebb767 wrote:
brunzenstein wrote:
devilwarriors wrote:Ewww.. should have knew they would do like every shit developer and release this at the last possible day of the month they say they will release it..
Exactly the opposite is true.
Shit developer release final software early in a state far more shaky and wobbling then Factorio's alpha (rock stable as a Lighthouse today) ever was.
+1. I'm waiting too and I'm disappointed by the late releases, but being bad with dates is a developer sickness (I know it, I am one of them :p). And if you look at the product, which is what matters in the end, factorio is extremly stable, very well balanced and has a lot of features as well as superior modding support. They're also pretty open to the community and, counting all of this, you get more than your money's worth. Far more. Thank them for being so good and stop insulting these awesome people.
Nothing to add.
You guys are awesome!

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Ghoulish » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:48 pm

devilwarriors wrote:Ewww.. should have knew they would do like every shit developer and release this at the last possible day of the month they say they will release it..
You couldn't be more wrong, It's done when it's done is a good attitude for a game developer, pushing back the release to get it as bug free as possible can never be a bad thing from the end users point. Too many developers these days stick to deadlines and release buggy games and patch it after, which I find frankly insulting, you wouldn't buy a car that was missing advertised features, or had a tendency to crash.. Yet game developers seem to release their games in a beta, crashy, buggy state all too often. And it's the end user who suffers. (edit: and to think Factorio is still alpha!).

Kudos for doing it the correct way devs. I'm more excited for 0.13 than a virgin who just got to second base though.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by devilwarriors » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:07 pm

Sebb767 wrote:
brunzenstein wrote:
devilwarriors wrote:Ewww.. should have knew they would do like every shit developer and release this at the last possible day of the month they say they will release it..
Exactly the opposite is true.
Shit developer release final software early in a state far more shaky and wobbling then Factorio's alpha (rock stable as a Lighthouse today) ever was.
+1. I'm waiting too and I'm disappointed by the late releases, but being bad with dates is a developer sickness (I know it, I am one of them :p). And if you look at the product, which is what matters in the end, Factorio is extremely stable, very well balanced and has a lot of features as well as superior modding support. They're also pretty open to the community and, counting all of this, you get more than your money's worth. Far more. Thank them for being so good and stop insulting these awesome people.
I'm a developer too and I prefer transparence instead. I would rather they had released an unstable version june 1 clearly marked experimental for modder only and then work with them for the month to release a general public version at the end of the month.
Now instead it's 0.11->0.12 all over again. They broke half the mod and it's gonna take months again to get those working, since probably half the mod developer moved on to other games.

But I know it's really only the fault of those whiny gamer who have no idea how development work and want to play the latest version no mater what and then go whine on forum how the game is bugged and they are getting ripped off and the dev are bads people who molest children, while meanwhile they never ever submitted a bug report ever in their miserable life.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Sebb767 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:34 pm

devilwarriors wrote: I would rather they had released an unstable version june 1 clearly marked experimental for modder only and then work with them for the month to release a general public version at the end of the month. [ ... ] But I know it's really only the fault of those whiny gamer who have no idea how development work and want to play the latest version no mater what and then go whine on forum how the game is bugged and they are getting ripped and the dev are bads people who molest children, while meanwhile they never ever submitted a bug report ever in their miserable life.
Fully agreed.

devilwarriors wrote: I'm a developer too and I prefer transparence instead. I would rather they had released an unstable version june 1 clearly marked experimental for modder only and then work with them for the month to release a general public version at the end of the month.
Now instead it's 0.11->0.12 all over again. They broke half the mod and it's gonna take months again to get those working, since probably half the mod developer moved on to other games.
I agree that their release date handling was really bad. This "soon, maybe soon, really soon ... oh, 2 more weeks" killed the hype and anticipation IMO (I realize this is not the critique you brought forward, though).

But, on the other hand, what would be the point of releasing a pre-release version? Modders may have a lower bar in case of crashes etc, but the factorio devs would need to work on bug reports for bugs they'll find & fix while playtesting anyway. Some people will download it and complain. They have even more work (I'm pretty sure they're so quiet now because they're working hard to release 0.13). Also, people will play either vanilla at first so it doesn't matter if mods are initially available (small mods mostly will be converted rather fast or never) or they play a full conversion, in which case the probably don't care about the new version. To be honest, the early acces/"alpha" is actually a pre-release, but people just ignore it by now so you can't just throw out a buggy beta and tell them its a beta - thanks greenlight and kickstarter.

So, concluding: Yes, their date handling was bad, but that doesn't make them bad devs.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by devilwarriors » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:47 pm

Sebb767 wrote:but the factorio devs would need to work on bug reports for bugs they'll find & fix while playtesting anyway.
It's called a git commit message and that can all be automated these days, if they are doing thing right.
And they have to waste that time anyway, if they want an organised repository.
Sebb767 wrote:I'm pretty sure they're so quiet now because they're working hard to release 0.13
They just said that the main developer was on holiday so I don't know why you all assume that. If it's ready enough for him to go on vacation.......
Sebb767 wrote:but that doesn't make them bad devs.
well i'm not saying they are bad dev, i'm just a tad disappointed that all loll..
They are light years ahead of KSP devs imo.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Sebb767 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:02 pm

devilwarriors wrote:
Sebb767 wrote:but that doesn't make them bad devs.
well i'm not saying they are bad dev, i'm just a tad disappointed that all loll..
They are light years ahead of KSP devs imo.
devilwarriors wrote:Ewww.. should have knew they would do like every shit developer [...]
But I see you probably exaggerated a bit, no need to defend yourself. I'm not happy either with how this went. (And yes, WAYS ahead of KSP!). To their defense, the release date now fixed this issue, even if maybe a little too late.

devilwarriors wrote:
Sebb767 wrote:but the factorio devs would need to work on bug reports for bugs they'll find & fix while playtesting anyway.
It's called a git commit message and that can all be automated these days, if they are doing thing right.
And they have to waste that time anyway, if they want an organised repository.
I'm talking about the forum ones. Someone needs to read them, find out whether some is on it or if there's a duplicate, then try to reproduce and give status updates ... compared to the found and [trying to] fix if a dev finds it while playtesting.

devilwarriors wrote:
Sebb767 wrote:I'm pretty sure they're so quiet now because they're working hard to release 0.13
They just said that the main developer was on holiday so I don't know why you all assume that. If it's ready enough for him to go on vacation.......
Well, hard to argue. As you might have already realized I do think pretty positive about them, so I'll keep my fingers crossed and say that holiday was probably planned before the 0.13 release moved to this timeframe and that he deserved this holiday ;)

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