Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Regular reports on Factorio development.

Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby immibis » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:46 am

slpwnd wrote:There will be new content even after 0.9 :) But the thing is that we need to fix some graphical problems from the past first - that means re-skinning assembling machines (now done), inserters, transport belts.

Is there anything wrong with those icons, except that they don't match the new style?
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby slpwnd » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:40 am

immibis wrote:
slpwnd wrote:There will be new content even after 0.9 :) But the thing is that we need to fix some graphical problems from the past first - that means re-skinning assembling machines (now done), inserters, transport belts.

Is there anything wrong with those icons, except that they don't match the new style?


At the moment the icons are functional (often you can tell what the icon means), but they look quite terrible (icons like science packs, laser turret, mining drill, gear wheel, etc.). They are taken from various sources (free resource, images from google, hand made icons, etc.) and it is quite visible. The way we see it is that this is becoming one of the major obstacles in improving the "presentability" of the game. That is why we are going to hire an external artist to work on this (so that Albert can keep working on the machines).
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby Chrotesque » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:01 pm

Love the style you have going on for new graphic assets, quite the dirty and industrial design - awesome. However I do agree with a few here, the higher tier you go with a specific machine such as the assembly machine, I'd like them to get increasingly complex in terms of the look, while the moving parts on top are a nice touch, I'd not stop there but also add small details to the sides as well - lights are always welcome for instance. Maybe even changing the shape slighty (within the same grid size of course), apart from the moving parts up top, it's all "just" changed colors.
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby dusho » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:53 pm

would agree with post above about have different shapes for higher tiers.. every tier would be 2x2, but lower tiers would have less and bigger sized machinery (valves, pistons, ...), higher tiers having more complex and smaller parts and also have different silhouette (more techy)
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby Zemerson » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:41 pm

The shadow on the Mk1 assembly machine are the same as Mk2, but Mk1 doesn't have the parts to make the shadows?
is this a mistake or am I missing something?
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby immibis » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:16 pm

slpwnd wrote:
immibis wrote:
slpwnd wrote:There will be new content even after 0.9 :) But the thing is that we need to fix some graphical problems from the past first - that means re-skinning assembling machines (now done), inserters, transport belts.

Is there anything wrong with those icons, except that they don't match the new style?


At the moment the icons are functional (often you can tell what the icon means), but they look quite terrible (icons like science packs, laser turret, mining drill, gear wheel, etc.). They are taken from various sources (free resource, images from google, hand made icons, etc.) and it is quite visible. The way we see it is that this is becoming one of the major obstacles in improving the "presentability" of the game. That is why we are going to hire an external artist to work on this (so that Albert can keep working on the machines).

I meant the old assembling machines, inserters, transport belts, and their entity icons, not item icons.

Btw, the moving parts on top of the old assembling machines (and the new assembling machine 2) looked like they were knitting the items, which was always amusing.
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby LoSboccacc » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:24 pm

immibis wrote:Btw, the moving parts on top of the old assembling machines (and the new assembling machine 2) looked like they were knitting the items, which was always amusing.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjAZGUcjrP8

truth in gaming :D
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby DRBLN » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:27 pm

Do you plan to release the update next Friday?
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby LoSboccacc » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:35 pm

DRBLN wrote:Do you plan to release the update next Friday?


I hope before that so much bug fixed makes me reluctant in investing too much time in my map now, and 8.x feels soooo obsolete now :P
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby GROOV3ST3R » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:03 pm

Id like to see a possibility of a texture pack in the future. I always preferred more modern styles to old, steampunk style. It'd be nice if we could choose the style we want to see or better yet, if technology would visually evolve over time. Thats my two cents :)
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby Malkasphia » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:52 am

Having worked on a lot of project teams designing web site stuff, I know the pain that must come from many of your clientele being surprised ( in a slightly negative way) to your new art assets. I am talking about the new assembling machine and the new factorio logo designs that were shot down a while ago.

The new assembling machine "clock-work" and mechanical gear look does not do factorio justice unfortunately, unlike the old art asset with the inserter arms moving about on the inside of the machine ( it is my 2nd favorite animation in the game ( my 1st being the way biters move as a fluid horde/herd), the old assembler machine art).

I must agree with everyone else's post here. Factorio needs a peppering of green and red LED lights on nearly everything or...just a whole new electrical factory look. This is just how we ( most posters so far) see the game as this very scavenger/low-tech turning high tech approach to the game.

It would also be cool to know what albert is hoping to go for with the art assets in the game, although i personally do hope that this does not come with an audacity or arrogance that turns albert off for listening to critique :( ...its tough working hard on something new and taking the lumps from people who do not do albert's job day in and day out.

Much love for your game!
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby BurnHard » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:13 am

Right, the quality of Alberts work is unquestionable, it's just the direction the style is going. For me, assembler 1 is perfectly fine for early low-tech phase. But as we progress, a more high-tech look would be nice, without looking thematically displaced in the "old" factory. Not easy to achieve, thats clear. Assembler 3 should have at least some sort of lasercutting/welding going on with sparks flying ^^
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby ultratempum » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:20 pm

Looks great!
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby glex » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:44 pm

Malkasphia wrote:Having worked on a lot of project teams designing web site stuff, I know the pain that must come from many of your clientele being surprised ( in a slightly negative way) to your new art assets. I am talking about the new assembling machine and the new factorio logo designs that were shot down a while ago.

The new assembling machine "clock-work" and mechanical gear look does not do factorio justice unfortunately, unlike the old art asset with the inserter arms moving about on the inside of the machine ( it is my 2nd favorite animation in the game ( my 1st being the way biters move as a fluid horde/herd), the old assembler machine art).

I must agree with everyone else's post here. Factorio needs a peppering of green and red LED lights on nearly everything or...just a whole new electrical factory look. This is just how we ( most posters so far) see the game as this very scavenger/low-tech turning high tech approach to the game.

It would also be cool to know what albert is hoping to go for with the art assets in the game, although i personally do hope that this does not come with an audacity or arrogance that turns albert off for listening to critique :( ...its tough working hard on something new and taking the lumps from people who do not do albert's job day in and day out.

Much love for your game!
Mal



Hi Malkasphia, BurnHard and Factorians in general,
I'm Albert, the graphic guy, you can can call me graphic Albert, if you like ; )

I do agree with your opinions about the difference in between levels of technology. It would be great to have clearly differences in shapes and elements in all the machines in general, not only assembling machines.

The jump from steam power to nuclear power through electric power, or laser and so on.. It is a very important matter and something big to work on.

The point is that by now our main goal concerning graphics is to erase all these aesthetical gaps we have, as soon as possible in order to release the factorio-trailer-v.2. and having a good looking and aesthetically balanced game.

So what we did with the new assembling machines is a reasonable solution for erasing those gaps in a fast way. I take it as 3x1 offer, who don't buy it when running out of money?

Someone said in the forums that what he likes the most is the old direction, but i must say that there's no such "old direction", at the very beginning, everything was chaos, like a normal cosmos. Factorio was plenty different sprites, styles, concepts, colour palettes etc... making it look like an amateurish interactive power point.

What you see now is the first direction, and I must confess that is so complex, and also under development.
Many things you see in the game are just sketches, tests, primitive ideas that are there just because we need them for a proper playing, and they are taking the time to mature properly.
That is the case with the assembling machines, in my opinion. I've learnt a lot about what this machine requires (and many others too) just by publishing them and seeing how it works integrated and reading your opinions.

As kovarex wrote once in the FFF#10 ( http://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-10 )
Factorio is like a jam session. It is a critical trial and error matter.
Like the code. You write it, you find a bug, after you find the way to kill it, and then, you just kill it, and maybe it re-appears after future changes.
So the same happens with graphics.

Sometimes at the first attempt you have it, like the roboport, but many others are specially complex, because they are touching so many other sensitive fields.

About other points concerning graphics I also agree. So the only I can say is that we're on it, and don't take every change as a definitive thing, that's why there's so many releases and updates, and also the forums are so alive, because by reading your feedback we learn how to improve everything.

I do really appreciate your consideration about our work, sometimes it is like an oasis in the middle of the desert (sometimes like a hell ;) ), and you can believe that we're here working hard every single day. In order to have the best Factorio ever.


@Malkasphia-> I also love how the biters moves, it is my favorite thing in the game, sometimes, I create a map in peaceful mode just to stay there with them and see how they moves in the environment : ) (during hours XD)
I would have a bunch of biters in adoption at my place for sure if it would be possible.
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby BurnHard » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:50 pm

Albert, thanks for sharing your thoughts and having us a little insight in the whole process :)

If regarding to me, what I meant with "old" really was "early game", in ingame-therm. aka the low-tech phase
Last edited by BurnHard on Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby Chrotesque » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:14 pm

Thank you Albert, while I have my own preferences just like anybody in here, I must admit I can't wait for what you'll come up with next, I love your style. ;) Having seen a few picture from previous versions one has to admit, the game got increasingly better looking!
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby crimsonknight3 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:46 pm

I think the new animations are utterly amazing!! I am very proud to have supported this game and I really appreciate the hard work you guys put into it! It will be well worth the wait for finished article :) Can't wait to see more animations and updated graphics :D

[Edit] Also Albert, thank you for your post. I think what others are saying about the technology progressing should match the graphics, however, for the time being it would make assembling machines an amazing addition to any budding factory and I totally get that you need to make the game look not only aesthetically pleasing for the trailer, but also to show those who don't yet know factorio that you guys are working hard on the game, as we all know, most people judge a book by its cover and at first glance, graphical changes are always the first a potential buyer see's. Generally I tend to ignore trailers nowadays for mainstream games as they always make the game look better than it is, however for small developers such as yourselves, a trailer with actual game footage can end up being the start or end of an amazing game, so good luck with the trailer, I cant wait to see it :)
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby Calico » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:21 pm

Thx for posting Albert! Also good to hear that there is still room for some changes later on, after trailer 2.0. Looking forward to your future works. :)
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby ficolas » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:47 pm

@Malkasphia-> I also love how the biters moves, it is my favorite thing in the game, sometimes, I create a map in peaceful mode just to stay there with them and see how they moves in the environment : ) (during hours XD)
I would have a bunch of biters in adoption at my place for sure if it would be possible.


What I like to see about creepers is in sandbox mode, how they are walking arround peacefully and then placing a wall near theyr base, all of the bitters run towards it to attack it and then they continue walking peacefully :D
Its like a swarm
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Re: Friday Facts #23 - Year after

Postby ssilk » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:55 pm

@ficolas: I would like that too. But that leaves me with too much questions open. What's their "job"? Not walking around? What do they eat? What is the connections to the worms and spawners?

It would be cool, if they had a behavior, which is based on needs and likes.
Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
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