Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

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Zeblote
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Zeblote »

Why is everyone worried about what happens when factorio is abandoned?

Should that actually happen at some point, they could just release a final patch to remove the authentication...

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by daniel34 »

Zeblote wrote:Why is everyone worried about what happens when factorio is abandoned?

Should that actually happen at some point, they could just release a final patch to remove the authentication...
Some people probably think that the new Multiplayer Matching Server replaces the current IP-based connection method and you can only play multiplayer if you have a connection (and are authenticated) to the matching server. This is not the case.
FFF #139 wrote:This service greatly simplifies the game discovery and connectability. Player hosting the game (or a headless server) will simply publish the game to the Multiplayer Matching Server. This makes the game available to other players via the Browse Games Gui. This will make the clumsy connecting directly to the server pretty much obsolete (though the functionality stays).
IP-based multiplayer games will still be possible in the future, no authentication or matchmaking server required.
FFF #139 wrote:LAN supports automatic discovery without internet connection
This actually extends the IP connect (offline) functionality, listing games on your LAN without internet access or a central matchmaking server.

Only the usage of the matchmaking server (browsing and joining games) requires a login to their servers. Direct connect via IP address will still be available just like in the current 0.12. If anything, this doesn't remove functionality in any way, instead it provides an additional (and preferred by most) way to connect to others.
You'll still have the same issues when connecting by IP instead of the matchmaking server (port-forwarding), but the functionality stays the same.
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by exstreamrider »

Hey I've been wondering about steam integration for awhile now, great to know that its an up and coming thing.
Although...
I would personally like it if maybe in 1.4 (I know that is a bit away) there could be a steam community workshop(like portal) in the sense that blueprints could be uploaded and imported into the game from the workshop... making a more connected community allowing for better builds. i know that may be difficult but the pay off would be a better and more cooperative gaming experience in which many things could be shared to the community. thanks if you read this.
-STREAM

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by brunzenstein »

exstreamrider wrote:Hey I've been wondering about steam integration for awhile now, great to know that its an up and coming thing.
Although...
I would personally like it if maybe in 1.4 (I know that is a bit away) there could be a steam community workshop(like portal) in the sense that blueprints could be uploaded and imported into the game from the workshop... making a more connected community allowing for better builds. i know that may be difficult but the pay off would be a better and more cooperative gaming experience in which many things could be shared to the community. thanks if you read this.
-STREAM
As far as I know that feature will most probably be implemented with the upcoming version 0.13 expected around June/July 16 - for owners of legal Factorio copies either with a on board blueprint notepad or via a Factorio owned network server - and that are two good news in one :P

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Nova
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Nova »

Zeblote wrote:Why is everyone worried about what happens when factorio is abandoned?

Should that actually happen at some point, they could just release a final patch to remove the authentication...
When a company shuts down, there is a good chance they can't do a final patch or simply don't care anymore.


But I don't worry about that, because I'm sure the devs will not remove the direct internet multiplayer without usage of a master server. (And if they do I will write a really angry letter. :P )
Greetings, Nova.
Factorio is one of the greatest games I ever played, with one of the best developers I ever heard of.

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by StarFox31 »

JC1223 wrote:There should be an in-game/account "friends" or "trust" list so we can restrict use of machines or belts or gates or inventories or whatever to ourselves or ourselves and people on trust/friend list so that random people can't leech off our production/power on multiplayer. (of course, this would need some way to prevent people walling in someone and not letting them break stuff, maybe gates will open for anyone still but can't be broken and if someone tries to wall someone in without a gate then the walls will check for an open path through (gates counting as an open way) and not allow the loop to complete and so there is space to still walk out between some walls or not allow gates to be placed in some areas so there is an open way always)
Why not just have your server passworded and only provided it to trusted friends?
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by StarFox31 »

RackAttack wrote:
wwdragon wrote:Wait you are planning to have the game dial home to your server when it starts???
UNACCEPTABLE!

I hate it when programs try to connect without my permission.
If I'm playing single player, lan or even direct IP, it should not be connecting to your servers... not unless I specifically tell it too because I chose the secure mode checkbox in the game setup screen.
In fact, if .13 tries to dial home, I'm digitally throwing factorio in the trash.

PLease don't screw up the game, by doing this.
Did you even read the article? The server is for multiplayer matchmaking... The article even says you can matchmake on LAN without internet access, and that the old direct IP functionality will remain.
Im going to assume he is just paranoid because he has a pirated copy.
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by seronis »

StarFox31 wrote:Im going to assume he is just paranoid because he has a pirated copy.
Or its simply not wanting bad design decisions to ruin a product. On somewhere between half and 2/3rds of the games I OWN I solely use a pirated version because it removes stupidity in design. The remaining ones are games like Star Ruler 1 where even the steam install doesnt require steam to be running in order to play. No idiocy in design at all.

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by wwdragon »

HanziQ wrote:
wwdragon wrote:
RackAttack wrote:
wwdragon wrote:Wait you are planning to have the game dial home to your server when it starts???
UNACCEPTABLE!

I hate it when programs try to connect without my permission.
If I'm playing single player, lan or even direct IP, it should not be connecting to your servers... not unless I specifically tell it too because I chose the secure mode checkbox in the game setup screen.
In fact, if .13 tries to dial home, I'm digitally throwing factorio in the trash.

PLease don't screw up the game, by doing this.
Did you even read the article? The server is for multiplayer matchmaking... The article even says you can matchmake on LAN without internet access, and that the old direct IP functionality will remain.
I did read it.
But it contains contrary information.

Didn't you notice that it says it requires an authorization server at the start of the game?
While at the same time stating that you don't need to login for that other service?

There should NOT be any login until I goto the multiplayer menu and select to browse in matchmaking!
Putting a required login, is the same online authorization CRAP that EA did and no one could even play!
It's also an insult, saying they are paranoid and don't even trust their customers; which is part of why I'm angry!
The usage (creating games as well as listing games) of our Multiplayer Matching Server will require user to be logged in with his Factorio username.
This is an anti-piracy change, but in a different way than AAA games do it - we don't use DRM (apart from Steam, but you can still download the game from the website) that would disallow you from playing the game, we are just hiding some of the more advanced features, that require further use of our servers, behind some walls. If you don't like it, it's very simple, stop playing.
Are you saying then, that the game will still function in single player, direct ip and lan mode if it cannot connect to your server?

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Zeblote »

wwdragon wrote:
HanziQ wrote:
wwdragon wrote:
RackAttack wrote:
wwdragon wrote:Wait you are planning to have the game dial home to your server when it starts???
UNACCEPTABLE!

I hate it when programs try to connect without my permission.
If I'm playing single player, lan or even direct IP, it should not be connecting to your servers... not unless I specifically tell it too because I chose the secure mode checkbox in the game setup screen.
In fact, if .13 tries to dial home, I'm digitally throwing factorio in the trash.

PLease don't screw up the game, by doing this.
Did you even read the article? The server is for multiplayer matchmaking... The article even says you can matchmake on LAN without internet access, and that the old direct IP functionality will remain.
I did read it.
But it contains contrary information.

Didn't you notice that it says it requires an authorization server at the start of the game?
While at the same time stating that you don't need to login for that other service?

There should NOT be any login until I goto the multiplayer menu and select to browse in matchmaking!
Putting a required login, is the same online authorization CRAP that EA did and no one could even play!
It's also an insult, saying they are paranoid and don't even trust their customers; which is part of why I'm angry!
The usage (creating games as well as listing games) of our Multiplayer Matching Server will require user to be logged in with his Factorio username.
This is an anti-piracy change, but in a different way than AAA games do it - we don't use DRM (apart from Steam, but you can still download the game from the website) that would disallow you from playing the game, we are just hiding some of the more advanced features, that require further use of our servers, behind some walls. If you don't like it, it's very simple, stop playing.
Are you saying then, that the game will still function in single player, direct ip and lan mode if it cannot connect to your server?
Is this not obvious?

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by joseph222 »

Drury wrote:
LAN supports automatic discovery without internet connection
Meanwhile, on Starcraft 2 forums...
The technology isn't there yet.
Factorio officially the most technologically advanced videogame on the market.
Lol! :mrgreen:

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by wwdragon »

Zeblote wrote:
wwdragon wrote:
HanziQ wrote:
The usage (creating games as well as listing games) of our Multiplayer Matching Server will require user to be logged in with his Factorio username.
This is an anti-piracy change, but in a different way than AAA games do it - we don't use DRM (apart from Steam, but you can still download the game from the website) that would disallow you from playing the game, we are just hiding some of the more advanced features, that require further use of our servers, behind some walls. If you don't like it, it's very simple, stop playing.
Are you saying then, that the game will still function in single player, direct ip and lan mode if it cannot connect to your server?
Is this not obvious?
Not to me.
Ok, I have jumped to some conclusions that weren't directly founded by the article.

However this still leaves a few things unanswered....
1) Is directip one of the things requiring the login or just making it an option?

2) Why dial home when the game starts up and not when I go to connect via the multiplayer menu?
Dial home devices aren't any better then drm; I consider them to be pointless, invasive spying.

3)If I choose not to enter my name and pw, is the game still going to work in all those ways that don't include the matchmaking server?

4) The main conflict in that post is that lan doesn't require it, but there's gonna be an auth key reqested from the get go.
That doesn't make sense.

5) HanziQ's answer says it's not going to be anything to stop me playing the game.
Sounds good; is that conditional though or in everything not matchmaking multiplayer?

6) He also says that the dial home device is some sort of anti piracy measure.
That won't stop piracy or even slow it; I really don't understand how anyone can believe that dial home on start up does anything positive!

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by cube »

wwdragon wrote:
Zeblote wrote:
wwdragon wrote:
HanziQ wrote:
The usage (creating games as well as listing games) of our Multiplayer Matching Server will require user to be logged in with his Factorio username.
This is an anti-piracy change, but in a different way than AAA games do it - we don't use DRM (apart from Steam, but you can still download the game from the website) that would disallow you from playing the game, we are just hiding some of the more advanced features, that require further use of our servers, behind some walls. If you don't like it, it's very simple, stop playing.
Are you saying then, that the game will still function in single player, direct ip and lan mode if it cannot connect to your server?
Is this not obvious?
Not to me.
Ok, I have jumped to some conclusions that weren't directly founded by the article.

However this still leaves a few things unanswered....
1) Is directip one of the things requiring the login or just making it an option?

2) Why dial home when the game starts up and not when I go to connect via the multiplayer menu?
Dial home devices aren't any better then drm; I consider them to be pointless, invasive spying.

3)If I choose not to enter my name and pw, is the game still going to work in all those ways that don't include the matchmaking server?

4) The main conflict in that post is that lan doesn't require it, but there's gonna be an auth key reqested from the get go.
That doesn't make sense.

5) HanziQ's answer says it's not going to be anything to stop me playing the game.
Sounds good; is that conditional though or in everything not matchmaking multiplayer?

6) He also says that the dial home device is some sort of anti piracy measure.
That won't stop piracy or even slow it; I really don't understand how anyone can believe that dial home on start up does anything positive!
We will have three modes:
  • public - game gets registered on the matching server, you need to login for this
  • lan - game gets announced only on LAN, you don't need to login
  • private - game is not announced anywhere, you don't need to login
In all of these modes you can still connect directly using IP address or DNS name like you did in 0.12.
Also, in any of these modes you can enable identity verification, which means that everyone connecting to the game has to log in and gets assigned the same name as their factorio account has.

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Speadge »

cube wrote: In all of these modes you can still connect directly using IP address or DNS name like you did in 0.12.
Also, in any of these modes you can enable identity verification, which means that everyone connecting to the game has to log in and gets assigned the same name as their factorio account has.
hey cube,
does this mean that i can use my INGAME identity on other platforms without having to copy the Player.json file first? or is each Client that connects to a multiplayer-game still considered as a "new Player"?

i.e. playing on Server S from Client A gives me identity SA; so when i connect from another Client (B), the server / Client doesnt know that it is ME with the SA identity, so i get another identity SB.

Is this still the fact with the identity-verification Feature, or does the server somehow remember each Player and his Factorio-id and assign them always to the same ingame Player?

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by yngndrw »

Are server_padlocks periodically for long-running servers ? There doesn't seem to be an expiry linked to them.

How does the server know what timestamp to use for the user_server_key ? I assume the timestamp is there for expiry of this token ?

You could use a asymmetric signing instead with pre-existing / proven methods, something like signed JSON Web Tokens - See the OpenID Connect protocol or even OAuth where tokens can be verified without contacting the auth server and may include any claims about the user that the auth server needs to make. You could see the game server as a resource server that the user requests authorisation to access.

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