Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

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ikiris
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by ikiris »

Please tell me you used ttl >1 multicast for discovery, instead of just doing broadcast.

pr0n
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by pr0n »

wwdragon wrote:Wait you are planning to have the game dial home to your server when it starts???
UNACCEPTABLE!

I hate it when programs try to connect without my permission.
If I'm playing single player, lan or even direct IP, it should not be connecting to your servers... not unless I specifically tell it too because I chose the secure mode checkbox in the game setup screen.
In fact, if .13 tries to dial home, I'm digitally throwing factorio in the trash.

PLease don't screw up the game, by doing this.
Are you being serious? That's a troll post right? If you are serious, you first off have no idea what you're on about. Secondly, I'd recommend a good pair of wire cutters to solve your paranoia.

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Hamster »

RackAttack wrote:
wwdragon wrote:Wait you are planning to have the game dial home to your server when it starts???
UNACCEPTABLE!

I hate it when programs try to connect without my permission.
If I'm playing single player, lan or even direct IP, it should not be connecting to your servers... not unless I specifically tell it too because I chose the secure mode checkbox in the game setup screen.
In fact, if .13 tries to dial home, I'm digitally throwing factorio in the trash.

PLease don't screw up the game, by doing this.
Did you even read the article? The server is for multiplayer matchmaking... The article even says you can matchmake on LAN without internet access, and that the old direct IP functionality will remain.
Just as RackAttack wrote, read again the blog. And if you don't want that it go out, then put the game on your firewall to the blocked list.
Assuming you have a firewall. :roll:

kane.nexus
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by kane.nexus »

Hamster wrote:
RackAttack wrote:
wwdragon wrote:Wait you are planning to have the game dial home to your server when it starts???
UNACCEPTABLE!

I hate it when programs try to connect without my permission.
If I'm playing single player, lan or even direct IP, it should not be connecting to your servers... not unless I specifically tell it too because I chose the secure mode checkbox in the game setup screen.
In fact, if .13 tries to dial home, I'm digitally throwing factorio in the trash.

PLease don't screw up the game, by doing this.
Did you even read the article? The server is for multiplayer matchmaking... The article even says you can matchmake on LAN without internet access, and that the old direct IP functionality will remain.
Just as RackAttack wrote, read again the blog. And if you don't want that it go out, then put the game on your firewall to the blocked list.
Assuming you have a firewall. :roll:
Wouldn't surprise me if they had 7 because 7 is the most magically powerful number

bk5115545
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by bk5115545 »

I'd like to see player ping times so I can tell who the lag-switching prick is (should there be one).
I'd also like to be able to set the server latency without restarting the server (see below).

Awesome changes. Can't wait to try them out.

In it's current state, just changing the latency via some special event would probably cause desyncs but since the server knows exactly when the latency was changed it can pause itself, tell the clients to change the latency value, replay events between latency change to current server tick time, and then resume.

Doing it like the above has a few technical things that WOULD NOT be simple:
Clients have to keep a reasonably large, ordered event history (say a full second) so that they can rollback the game state to replay events from the server.
If the client has made a change to the game state in this 1-second window, how does the server handle the change? (the simple way is that it doesn't allow the change).

An easier way (though more annoying) would be to have the server pre-pause and send a special event to clients that says "pause on tick X." Clients adknowledge with the tick that they paused on (incase the pause event isn't received fast enough -- the server can simulate up a few ticks if it needs to but more than a few would be noticeable). Everyone is paused and on the same tick -- server sends the event to change latency. clients adknowledge. server sends event to resume.

Pause event could be as simple as setting game speed to 0.

This would be a lot faster than forcing players to redownload the entire map.

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Rhamphoryncus »

If LAN mode supports offline play will it still attempt authentication?

Will public/unlisted mode still allow LAN connections? I have had experience with routers that, regardless of configuration, refuse to route back through their public address. It is terribly ironic (and frustrating) to be able to connect people anywhere in the world except those sitting right next to you.

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by ratchetfreak »

JC1223 wrote:There should be an in-game/account "friends" or "trust" list so we can restrict use of machines or belts or gates or inventories or whatever to ourselves or ourselves and people on trust/friend list so that random people can't leech off our production/power on multiplayer. (of course, this would need some way to prevent people walling in someone and not letting them break stuff, maybe gates will open for anyone still but can't be broken and if someone tries to wall someone in without a gate then the walls will check for an open path through (gates counting as an open way) and not allow the loop to complete and so there is space to still walk out between some walls or not allow gates to be placed in some areas so there is an open way always)
That's what forces and the no aggression setting with them are for

Ratzap
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Ratzap »

One thing I'm wondering still is how will this game finder support modded games? Will there be space for a URL or something next to the game name to let people grab whatever mods are required?

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Klonan »

Ratzap wrote:One thing I'm wondering still is how will this game finder support modded games? Will there be space for a URL or something next to the game name to let people grab whatever mods are required?
The mod portal will be used to download any required mods

seronis
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by seronis »

Klonan wrote:
Ratzap wrote:One thing I'm wondering still is how will this game finder support modded games? Will there be space for a URL or something next to the game name to let people grab whatever mods are required?
The mod portal will be used to download any required mods
Is the server automatically going to double as a mod portal too? Mods can be installed manually after all. This is how Dont Starves mod syncing works and its a huge convenience. Any mod on the server the server will just distribute to who connects.

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Zeblote »

Klonan wrote:
Ratzap wrote:One thing I'm wondering still is how will this game finder support modded games? Will there be space for a URL or something next to the game name to let people grab whatever mods are required?
The mod portal will be used to download any required mods
Can you download mods from the server directly if they weren't found on the mod portal?

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Xalizar »

Thank you for continuing these posts, I love the information contained within. Some developers don't release any new for long periods of time and it's hard to stay connected to the game. It is really great how you are staying connected to your player community and I'm enjoying reading about / watching the game progress. Thank you.

Xalizar

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Drury
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Drury »

LAN supports automatic discovery without internet connection
Meanwhile, on Starcraft 2 forums...
The technology isn't there yet.
Factorio officially the most technologically advanced videogame on the market.
Image

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by linkedparadise »

Hi. Sorry I don't understand well about networking. But I want to ask about something written in the blog.

1)In the next update (0.13), if we want to play multiplayer, we need to login and verified with a Factorio account (factorio.com)? Well then, will the in-game name changing function be useless?

2)About the NAT punching thing. Basically, this thing will allow players joing to a sever even when the server don't have its ports opened, like PAYDAY2, Borderlands using SteamWorks?

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Vudjun »

Zeblote wrote:
Klonan wrote:
Ratzap wrote:One thing I'm wondering still is how will this game finder support modded games? Will there be space for a URL or something next to the game name to let people grab whatever mods are required?
The mod portal will be used to download any required mods
Can you download mods from the server directly if they weren't found on the mod portal?
I hope this will be an option. It's important for both servers with custom mods that aren't ready for public release, as well as servers using customized versions of mods (Like changing some settings).

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brunzenstein
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by brunzenstein »

Finally there is a distinction between honest buyers and copycats - not a iron gate but at least a try with a velvet glove.

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Talguy »

Klonan wrote:
Ratzap wrote:One thing I'm wondering still is how will this game finder support modded games? Will there be space for a URL or something next to the game name to let people grab whatever mods are required?
The mod portal will be used to download any required mods
Since Klonan didn't link it, just going to leave this here:

MOD PORTAL

As your questions there instead!

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Alekthefirst
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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Alekthefirst »

linkedparadise wrote:Hi. Sorry I don't understand well about networking. But I want to ask about something written in the blog.

1)In the next update (0.13), if we want to play multiplayer, we need to login and verified with a Factorio account (factorio.com)? Well then, will the in-game name changing function be useless?

2)About the NAT punching thing. Basically, this thing will allow players joing to a sever even when the server don't have its ports opened, like PAYDAY2, Borderlands using SteamWorks?
1) no the login is exclusively to ensure that you have a valid copy of the game, you in game username can still be set in the options menus

2) NAT is a way do circumvent a growing problem on the internet; we ran out of ip adresses a few years back, therefore not everyone can have their own. Those who do not get their own, gets put behind a NAT, which basically allows your isp to assign the same IP to many households. NAT punching makes it so you can connect to the wanted user
Factorio is a game about automating everything. One day, i hope i can automate shitty signatures just like this one.

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Vudjun »

Alekthefirst wrote:
linkedparadise wrote:Hi. Sorry I don't understand well about networking. But I want to ask about something written in the blog.

1)In the next update (0.13), if we want to play multiplayer, we need to login and verified with a Factorio account (factorio.com)? Well then, will the in-game name changing function be useless?

2)About the NAT punching thing. Basically, this thing will allow players joing to a sever even when the server don't have its ports opened, like PAYDAY2, Borderlands using SteamWorks?
1) no the login is exclusively to ensure that you have a valid copy of the game, you in game username can still be set in the options menus

2) NAT is a way do circumvent a growing problem on the internet; we ran out of ip adresses a few years back, therefore not everyone can have their own. Those who do not get their own, gets put behind a NAT, which basically allows your isp to assign the same IP to many households. NAT punching makes it so you can connect to the wanted user
I think linkedparadise is correct on the first point. In the blog post it says this:
Another advantage of having user verification is that when creating the game it can be requested that all the users connecting to the game needs to be verified. Which basically means that they are connecting with their Factorio username and they don't pretend to be someone else.

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Re: Friday Facts #139 - Wrapping up multiplayer

Post by Noobulus »

bk5115545 wrote:I'd like to see player ping times so I can tell who the lag-switching prick is (should there be one).
I think you can see them as-is if you're in-game and go to F4 (debug), go to the always tab, and turn on "Show Multiplayer Waiting Statistics". Not sure if you've done this already, but I hope it helps.

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