Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

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sillyfly
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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by sillyfly » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:58 pm

Koub wrote:
LotA wrote:I wonder why there is no words of any new rail pieces at this point (harder/softer curves basically) I really dislike to have to use the design on the left hand side, I hope/expect you'll make us able to build the two right hand side designs, especially with the upcoming new placement system.
Because with 0.13, there will be only one rail type : straight. The rail will automatically adapt to the shape of the track you're building, and curve accordingly as needed, using only straight rails from your inventory.
Source : http://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-113
This is regarding the way they are built. In all of the information we were presented, it was never implied or hinted that different configurations would be allowed/possible.
It seems to me as if at least in the beginning this will only be an interface change, so we still won't be able to change tracks within less than 2 tracks' width.
Last edited by sillyfly on Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by kovarex » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:59 pm

LotA wrote:I wonder why there is no words of any new rail pieces at this point (harder/softer curves basically) I really dislike to have to use the design on the left hand side, I hope/expect you'll make us able to build the two right hand side designs, especially with the upcoming new placement system.
t.jpg
Everything else look great, as always.. Love you Wube ;)
One of the millions of things that could be done eventually. There is no way this can get to 0.13, but maybe future releases? Who knows.

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by Brambor » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:02 pm

matherlyat wrote:Those two cases would have to be done with single pieces since 45 diagonals don't occur. I'm sure it will happen at some point.
45 degrees... If you mean that:

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Then I don't think it will be implemented... Why? Because you would be then able to do shapes that the train cannot (bend or cure or shape) itself for. Like this:

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#+-+#
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Or even one closer.
So it would be possible to implement a trail that will move the train one left and two up, as a one-block which will be 2x2 (trail blocks).

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#|##
#BB#
#BB#
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But 45 degrees in 1x1(trail block) is not possible.
Maybe even 2x2 block {1 left 2 forward} is not enought and it should be 3x2 instead {1 left 3 forward}.
[1 trail block is 2x2 regular blocks I think]

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by roy7 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:06 pm

Brambor wrote: 45 degrees... If you mean that:

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Isn't that a 90 degree turn?

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by Luaan » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:20 pm

The first thing on my mind while reading this was "I wonder how many people will come and say that illegal signals are essential in their build". And then I realized there are legitimate (ab)uses of illegal signals.

Preventing placement of illegal signals makes sense (though don't forget that adding a new rail can make a legal signal illegal). For the cases where you really want a track that's only accessible on manual, just add a "stop" sign that simply means no train can pass (in the way the sign is pointing). This is very useful when you're rebuilding a part of your rail network as well - it gives you an opportunity to mess with signals and new rails etc. without having trains run into the middle of your half-built intersection where they become stuck while blocking other trains and with no way out because another train just came in behind... you catch my drift. Sure, you can just remove the leading rail, but that again prevents you from manually driving a train there.

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by Khaylain » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:25 pm

Yay for all the QoL improvements to rails. I applaud thee. Love the great work and the weekly updates. Hoping that those 1 and 2 space S-tracks someone posted on page 2 (LotA) will become a reality some time.
Perhaps you should make the signal-placement visuals only show up when having a signal or chain-signal in your hand?

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by vaderciya » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:29 pm

I just want these thing now ;-;

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by ssilk » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:33 pm

LotA wrote:I wonder why there is no words of any new rail pieces at this point (harder/softer curves basically) I really dislike to have to use the design on the left hand side, I hope/expect you'll make us able to build the two right hand side designs, especially with the upcoming new placement system.
t.jpg
Everything else look great, as always.. Love you Wube ;)
See also this: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19953

My question to Kovarex: Will it be possible to place signals also on curve-rails?

[In narrow space you cannot place enough signals to keep everything lock-free, which end in my experience in "keep it unoptimized" or "build it completely new". Typical example is a three-way-switch: Even if you think you left enough space the curves are at so adverse points, that's not possible. :) ]

Edit: And I have eventually another issue, that can be fixed with this:
Image
If you place here a signal on the left rail to the character it will blink, because it is an open block (same block on both sides of the signal). That could be fixed, by placing more signals on the other rails around the character. It would be cool, if such optional placement would be shown, if hovering the first signal; that would help the player to see, what's wrong. And it would be cool, if such places, that needs further signals to enclose a block would be marked yellow before placing or so...
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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by hatterson » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:05 pm

dee- wrote:So what about blueprinting as signle signal and placing it at illegal positions?
I suppose it's possible to work around the limitation that way.
My guess is blueprints wouldn't put them in illegal spots, much the same as blueprints don't put mining drills down on illegal spots
theRustyKnife wrote:The indication of possible (and sensible) spots for the signals is great though I'd still appreciate being able to build them even on the 'illegal' spots. I use this to make branches of my train network only I can access in manual mode therefore I can be sure there's never going to be a train in there to crash into me or whatever.
On the other hand I understand that it might be confusing for some people and I believe that the Devs (yeah, capital D :D ) can find a solution that suits everyone's needs and desires.
I'd say the easy way to handle this would be to start it out as a double way signal and then remove one of them, creating the dead block. Either that or have a game setting to allow "advanced" signal placement where it displays spots where a signal can be placed, regardless of if it'll result in a dead block or not. Basically an ability for you to be able to tell the game that you're aware of how all the signals work and can live with any mistakes you make.

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by Xterminator » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:13 pm

Absolutely love the signal placing Indicator! :D As someone who has struggled with signalling for a long time, this will be unbelievably helpful. Brilliant idea and the execution looks quite nice as well.

Definitely going to be one of those features we don't know how we played without it.

Also welcome to the new team member Mishka!
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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by Ojelle » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:22 pm

To wich one is the one circled in red orientated? Since it has two possible rail connections. Don't remember how it is in vanila atm. But don't they link to one wich you cant choose? If yes, only show that line :)
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Choumiko wrote:
sillyfly wrote:kovarex just posted the thread... but with #118 in the title. I think they had too much beer :D
It's a wonder how good the game is, if you consider how bad they are with the FFF numbers :mrgreen:

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by LotA » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:45 pm

kovarex wrote:One of the millions of things that could be done eventually. There is no way this can get to 0.13, but maybe future releases? Who knows.
0.13 schedule/goals are fine enough - a huge step forward. All I ask is a confirmation (0.14 or even further). Is this one ? :p

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by alban987 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:49 pm

Couple of questions.

1) Could you implement a way to place signals on both sides of a track at once?

2) How would a signal work in the screen shot if it were put in the crotch of that north east most triangle of rail crossings? It appears to be one space, points at both sets of rails.

Thanks!

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by Cylindric » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:50 pm

Ojelle wrote:To wich one is the one circled in red orientated? Since it has two possible rail connections. Don't remember how it is in vanila atm. But don't they link to one wich you cant choose? If yes, only show that line :)
To me it looks like it can be on either track, but not both. The lines point to each track, but once a signal is placed on one, there's no room on the other.

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by ratchetfreak » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:57 pm

alban987 wrote:Couple of questions.

1) Could you implement a way to place signals on both sides of a track at once?

2) How would a signal work in the screen shot if it were put in the crotch of that north east most triangle of rail crossings? It appears to be one space, points at both sets of rails.

Thanks!
2) you rotate the signal with R and it would only work as a single signal

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by Loewchen » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:58 pm

alban987 wrote:2) How would a signal work in the screen shot if it were put in the crotch of that north east most triangle of rail crossings? It appears to be one space, points at both sets of rails.
Since the placement mechanic does not change, you still can change to which rail it connects by rotating the signal but you can only place one or the other.

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by Martc » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:59 pm

Ojelle wrote:To wich one is the one circled in red orientated? Since it has two possible rail connections. Don't remember how it is in vanila atm. But don't they link to one wich you cant choose? If yes, only show that line :)
You can switch between two possible placement by R key (rotation).

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by LotA » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:14 pm

Koub wrote:Because with 0.13, there will be only one rail type : straight. The rail will automatically adapt to the shape of the track you're building, and curve accordingly as needed, using only straight rails from your inventory.
Source : http://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-113
On the engine part, there are still different "pieces" with different hitboxes/connectors. The new rail placement system only hides that - smartly - so it goes smoother for the end user with only one item to handle/craft. But you need the engine to be able to pick from a variety of pieces to be able able to get smooth/cute designs which will really give a great feeling to laying out track.

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by ske » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:45 pm

Stop teasing hard, start releasing smart!

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Re: Friday Facts #134 - Signal placement indicator

Post by Vizzy » Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:42 pm

I find one of the most time consuming aspects of rail is working out the distances between signals to try and keep a uniform signal separation.

Are there any plans to aid the player with that, kovarex?

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