Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by ikarikeiji » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:31 am

vaderciya wrote:I'm also in favor of a "no crafting" chiev, where you start with a basic assembler, 2 boilers, 2 inserters, 1 steam engine, 1 burner drill, 1 stone furnace, and an iron pickax(and you can't craft anything in your pocket).
I do believe you need either a level 3 assembler or an oil refinery, as you need oil -> red circuits -> speed modules -> level 3 assembler and you need a level 3 assembler to make an oil refinery as it has 5 components.

Similarly you need a level 2 assembler to make a level 2 assembler as it has 3 components.

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by CreeperDaReeper » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:24 am

Now that burning trees to the ground is a thing, will you ever add a simple tree planting / regrowth system? I know theres a few mods that do this, but we have so many ways to destroy trees in vanilla, I think it would be understandable to have a way to replace them too.

Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ8D28gvkjc
Because why the [BLEEP] not?

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by kovarex » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:04 am

florus2901 wrote:I like the "new" forest fire mechanic, some people want to see the world burn. In the past i was looking for a way to easy clear a forest without getting a lot of chest with wood or shooting trees with a shotgun.

Also some feedback on the Techtree, look to other games how they translated Research, for example Civilization games. And do not forget that there is no goldenrule in how you visualize it.
The problem is, that I personally strongly dislike the way it is done in civ games.

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by silverhole » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:53 pm

I think u can add somethink like Tesla tower from Command and Conquer Red Alert serie. That would be awesome for me because there was fire tower too before.

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by Erigalus » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:25 pm

Earlier I asked whether your buildings will be affected by the fire, as well. I think that if ALL buildings were affected, it'd be a little bit overkill for you, since practically your entire base can get destroyed too fast this way. But how about that everything that's made of wood (wooden chests, small and medium power poles) can catch fire and things loaded with much oil or other flammable fluids (oil tanks, chemical plants, maybe cars if they're fueled by oil and so on) are prone to exploding?
That way, one flaming biter wouldn't be able to destroy your entire base, but you'd still have to think a little more about intelligent placement of your buildings. That'd include some realism and challenge. ^^

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by AnTracius » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:21 pm

Achievement - "No Man Is An Island"

...I think you guys know how this achievement is going to be unlocked ;)
Factorio is life. Everything has a function--small changes or big changes.

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by vaderciya » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:11 pm

ikarikeiji wrote:
vaderciya wrote:I'm also in favor of a "no crafting" chiev, where you start with a basic assembler, 2 boilers, 2 inserters, 1 steam engine, 1 burner drill, 1 stone furnace, and an iron pickax(and you can't craft anything in your pocket).
I do believe you need either a level 3 assembler or an oil refinery, as you need oil -> red circuits -> speed modules -> level 3 assembler and you need a level 3 assembler to make an oil refinery as it has 5 components.

Similarly you need a level 2 assembler to make a level 2 assembler as it has 3 components.
Well then we give the player a level 3 assember instead of a level 1, and it's problem solved. But this is good, if we keep thinking of possibilities and what those idea need, they come closer to bearing fruit!

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by vaderciya » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:19 pm

TheTom wrote:Couple of throughts:

* Fire - NICE. i like it. But as it is trees are getting rare at some point. TIme for some growth mechanism? Have a background thread regularly plant new trees close to existing ones? Something like that. Without that - this is a nice mechanic that will see limited use. And no, I will NOT use it for clearing trees. Mostly because I use Bob's mod.... trees are valuable ;)

* Connecting everything to logistics. Better. What about making it a MODULE? Or extension. Plug that INTO an object and you get the antenna ;)
4 hours into playing bob's mods and trees become obsolete, while using heavy oil to make synthetic wood and resin

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by jockeril » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:39 pm

Erigalus wrote:Earlier I asked whether your buildings will be affected by the fire, as well. I think that if ALL buildings were affected, it'd be a little bit overkill for you, since practically your entire base can get destroyed too fast this way. But how about that everything that's made of wood (wooden chests, small and medium power poles) can catch fire and things loaded with much oil or other flammable fluids (oil tanks, chemical plants, maybe cars if they're fueled by oil and so on) are prone to exploding?
That way, one flaming biter wouldn't be able to destroy your entire base, but you'd still have to think a little more about intelligent placement of your buildings. That'd include some realism and challenge. ^^
I've just finished reading through all the comments and the "let's have the base catch fire" idea seems to have low support.

I, for one, will not use fire in any way if my factory can be affected by it because of the randomness of it !

Trees can be removed by chopping them or poison bombing them (my favorite method, once I have the tech). I really don't like the idea of my creations destroyed in minutes by one careless fire moment. Maybe make it and option - flamable (and explodeable) machinery/vehicles

Other then that, I love all the facts in this one including the ability to burn a whole forest to the ground :twisted:
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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by Keks » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:10 pm

don't worry about adding to many Achievements that require starting from scratch.
during this Alpha we (or at least "I") did that pretty much every time you released a new major patch and or killed some of the mods I was using if I didn't have that motivation I might have dropped it after 2 or so Factories and lost out on all the factory layouts that are possible.
Factorio is a gigantic timekiller anyway.
Worrying that getting all the achievements will take to much time is like worrying about that one blue factory having only -40% energy consumption and by extension pollution (2x lv1 efficiency modules) while telling your steam powered construction bots to concrete your whole base.

if people have the tenacity to get the all tech researched achievement they will get the others eventually.

also about burning buildings, it's your own fault if your base is burning you should have just walled it off. also repair bots could be used to extinguish fires.
I'd definitively argue for making some buildings fire resistant by default, it would also be logical to create a tech that makes buildings more fire resistant and some things (turrets, walls, tanks (not oil tanks)) immune.

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by dee- » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:42 pm

If you guys are so worried your factory or too large portoins of forest go up in flames, maybe you should add firebreaks, just do it how the real world does it.

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by eformo » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:06 pm

I'm still wondering about the inserter issue. People have mentioned going back to filter inserters instead of smart inserters, but the smart inserters have previously filled three roles:

1) Inserter that's connected to the circuit network.
This gets covered by the fact that other inserters can be connected to the circuit network.

2) Inserter that can filter items.
Filter inserter covers this need nicely.

3) Inserter that is connected to the logistics network.
This is the one I'm unclear on. How will this role be filled with the proposed removal of smart inserters?

Thanks all,

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by RobertTerwilliger » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:34 am

Really cool!

First of all, yes, some achievements simply have to be challenging. Here's simple example from my experience: I've achieved "real deal" in L4D2 in SP (with 3 dumb bots on my side) - after over 60 deaths. And when I told this to one "experienced" L4D player - he didn't get it. "Oh, pal, you've never really played L4D" - thought I : ) I mean, some achievements really should differ good experienced players from casuals who play the game for second or third time ever. Not all, but few extra-pro))

And I glad no additional entity will be needed for circuits - or else it would be quite reasonable usability limiting factor.

Simple wish about fire spreading - some limiting factors should also be. The most obvious seems to be rain system, however this brings up some technical issues - e.g. it won't be logical to get rain on whole map simultaneously, including deserts etc. Making rain clouds? It will probably need intending some meteorology math in game, thus making this rain idea not so cool (unless YOU, guys, see cool and "cheap" way to intend it, which I believe is possible for you)
Another way I think is more natural fire spreading - different fire catch chance for different tree types. Say, dried dead tree will flame from a tiny fire spark, but healthy tree in wet forest will need few fire sources nearby or longer flamethrower beam focus, thus preventing single flamethrower (possibly accidental) click burning square kilometers of forests. Well, chance still should be - just like IRL.
Holding formation further and further,
Millions of lamb stay in embrace of Judas.
They just need some bread and faith in themselves,
BUT
THE TSAR IS GIVEN TO THEM IN EXCHANGE!
Original: 5diez - "Ищу, теряя" (rus, 2013)

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by DerTolleIgel » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:13 am

Why would you want limiting factors for the fire? Usually every forest has some kind of end.. and it is your decision to set a big forest on fire and maybe end up with more biter attacks (but clear building space..). I wouldn't like it, as flamethrowers are useless at the moment, but if I would think "Oh I could burn this forest down with it.. but.. it won't burn for long anyway, I am still faster with grenades/poison capsules." - they are still useless.
I personally just want to see the world burn. :)

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by Drury » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:17 pm

How 'bout this:

Everything placed on basic terrain like grass, dirt, sand etc. is flammable/explosive

Nothing placed on concrete/pavement is flammable/explosive.

Wanna fireproof your factory?

Put some tiles underneath.

Or just don't use flamethrowers, your choice.

Alternatively, there could be water cannon turrets that would attack both biters, inflicting strong knockback but no damage, and any fire within range, effectively doubling as automatic fire prevention system.

Or an ability for construction robots to pick up some water from the nearest water source and pour it onto the fire if it breaks out within premises?
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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by Supercheese » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:23 pm

Drury wrote:Or an ability for construction robots to pick up some water from the nearest water source and pour it onto the fire if it breaks out within premises?
I suspect something like this will end up happening.

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by jockeril » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:19 am

Drury wrote:How 'bout this:

Everything placed on basic terrain like grass, dirt, sand etc. is flammable/explosive

Nothing placed on concrete/pavement is flammable/explosive.

Wanna fireproof your factory?

Put some tiles underneath.

Or just don't use flamethrowers, your choice.

Alternatively, there could be water cannon turrets that would attack both biters, inflicting strong knockback but no damage, and any fire within range, effectively doubling as automatic fire prevention system.

Or an ability for construction robots to pick up some water from the nearest water source and pour it onto the fire if it breaks out within premises?
Well, if they don't go with my suggestions, your ideas are good for me :idea:

One thing - what if we're not up to con. Robot level yet ? Definitely need the water cannons and they should need a water connection (also could require some water container for con. robots :mrgreen: )
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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by cpy » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:20 am

But i want to build my space station in factorio and do some space traveling :(

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by ThaPear » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:43 am

I see a lot of people talking about your own base burning. I think steel and concrete don't burn very well.
I'd imagine burning trees nearby might do damage to buildings, but I don't see how your own buildings would burn.

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Re: Friday Facts #125 - Achievements

Post by kovarex » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:28 pm

ThaPear wrote:I see a lot of people talking about your own base burning. I think steel and concrete don't burn very well.
I'd imagine burning trees nearby might do damage to buildings, but I don't see how your own buildings would burn.
As we all know, tree fuel can't melt steel beams :)

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