Friday Facts #12

Regular reports on Factorio development.

Which logo do you think is better for Factorio?

Logo#1 (the one on the left), full view: http://bit.ly/1gynlD0
26
37%
Logo#2 (the one on the right), full view: http://bit.ly/1j70gZZ
15
21%
original logo (preview at http://www.factorio.com)
25
36%
none of them
4
6%
 
Total votes : 70

Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby Nova » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:02 am

aussiegaylord wrote:feel free to explain why

I don't think I can explain my taste in art. ^^
In my opinion it makes the font harder to read. A easy and fast readable font is essential, even in some kind of logo. As well I prefer the "F" of the second logo, it's not as "round" as the "F" of the first logo.

aussiegaylord wrote:if you want or need to you can make things overly complected that make you computer crash ( done it 5 times already ;) )

Sorry, but i don't understand what you say. :/


slpwnd wrote:Thanks for the comments guys. Interesting to see such a variety of opinions. Based on your comments I have also added two options to the polls: the old logo and none of them.


Well... I understand why you don't like the old font. So not the old font. I don't like the font of the first new logo, so not the first logo. I don't like the texture of the second new logo: It has no pattern, just the same shade of grey for respectively each letter. So not the second logo. You see why this is a difficult question? :)
ow about using the texture of the first logo with the shape of the second logo? And I would prefer a round hole inside the gear.

Just see what other people say, one opinion is not enough! :D
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby aussiegaylord » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:32 am

yes nova i agree, we are just two people among many that will come to learn to love and enjoy this game, yet we are here now, at the beginning, watching the game develop and developing along with it and the logo is just a small part of it. i agree that all logos must be simple but effective, if their is too much going on then the subconscious instantly doesn't agree with it as it can not comprehend what it means or is trying to represent. and though you might not understand why you don't like it, you don't, and that decision is entirely up to you. so on that note i think that all inputs are important. collecting primary data this way is definitely a way to make the game better and i look forward to whatever they choose to move this game forward :D :D :D
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby FreeER » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:06 am

aussiegaylord wrote:we are just a few people among many that will come to learn to love and enjoy this game, yet we are here now, at the beginning, watching the game develop and developing along with it and the logo is just a small part of it
Now that is a good phrase to quote, if slightly modified to represent more than 2 people :)

Now on topic:
Nova wrote: A easy and fast readable font is essential, even in some kind of logo.
I do not personally agree that every logo needs to be easy and fast to read, the point is for it to distinguish itself from the competition and to perhaps show the 'character' of the product/company

I actually like logo #1 because it almost looks incomplete :) and not just because we're in alpha, but because it feels like a reminder that this isn't just a casual game, there is some work involved and that you should rarely be forced to stop playing any world, there will always be a little more that you could do. I also like the colors more than the second because it looks like it's lasted for a while and/or been beaten down, that reminds me of several things: the factories in the campaign, your own factories after you've fought off an attack that nearly destroyed you, the (theoretical) aged appearance of the oldest surviving buildings after years of surviving/thriving on an alien planet and (hopefully) the enemy after I'm finished with them :twisted:, hm...hopefully when there are more 'architectural' enemy bases, like the original creeper bases, then they will have a chance to turn into recognizable ruins, rather than remnants, after they are destroyed (yes more artwork to be done lol)
Well, there's my opinion, take and do with it as you will :)
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby ssilk » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:30 am

Simple idea: use Factorio entities.


for example: the F is made out of pipes. "a" and "c" Is just inserters. "t" is a belt, as "o" and "r". "i" is a furnace. And the "o" is a wheel as now. :)
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby Dysoch » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:48 am

ssilk wrote:Simple idea: use Factorio entities.


for example: the F is made out of pipes. "a" and "c" Is just inserters. "t" is a belt, as "o" and "r". "i" is a furnace. And the "o" is a wheel as now. :)

that i like :P

gives a nice resemblance to the game :P
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby Dakkanor » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:52 am

none of the logos are right to me.

the old logo:
i only really find the shapes of the A, C, R and the bottom of the T to bother me. apart from that the colour, texture and shape of the gear are as integral to the game to me as transport belts.

first new logo:
i don't like the cornering on the F, also i find the way the cuts in the letters to just plain bother me. the texture itself is a nice kind of metallic but the colour is boring and un-engaging. i see why you might want to change it but i don't like it. also making the letters stand out so much in their 3D profile just has a clunky feel to it. in my opinion a serious downgrade from the original.

second new logo:
similar to the first but its texture is unpleasant to me, just completely boring. the lettering font is overly chunky, factorio has never seemed like a game which could be described by "chunky". like the first new logo, it feels very unelagant and it doesn't really hold my attention.


i honestly believe that if either of the new logos were there when i first looked at the game i would have passed it over, i liked the eye catching and visually engaging logo, and the gear is the opening to factorio, if the loading screen was just that big orange gear rotating i would be perfectly happy.

as to the gear being on the end, i feel like it moves the focus the wrong way, in the center is kind of symbolizes how the mechanical layout and logical building are vital in the game, after all that is the core of factorio. at the end of the logo the imagery may still be there but its not as strong. also i think changing the gear style is what actually bothers me the most. it is the most iconic part of the logo, you need something really really good to get away with changing it in my eyes


long post short, i think that the original logo is the best by a long shot, it just needs tweaks. the only problems i had with it came after staring at it for ages.
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby Dysoch » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:54 am

Dakkanor wrote:long post short, i think that the original logo is the best by a long shot, it just needs tweaks. the only problems i had with it came after staring at it for ages.

you sir, have to much time on your hands when you can stare ages at a logo :P
but i agree for the rest. Original logo is the best for now, just needs some modified entities to work as letters :P
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby FreeER » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:58 am

ssilk wrote:Simple idea: use Factorio entities.
for example: the F is made out of pipes. "a" and "c" Is just inserters. "t" is a belt, as "o" and "r". "i" is a furnace. And the "o" is a wheel as now. :)
I read this and immediately imagined someone taking the time to build an entire factory that when zoomed out spells Factorio :) Be a nice intro to a video as well, zoom across the factory showing everything working, and then zoom out to show the logo :)
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby ssilk » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:27 am

Just remembered this idea is old and ... By me :)

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=880&p=6129#p6129

Edit: and another suggestion: why not just the wheel? No letters, just a big rotating wheel. That it is the "o" of factorio is self describing.

Edit2: or so: the wheel in the background and the Factorio letters sweeping over it. Or vice versa...

Edit3: and I think the whole logo discussion shouldn't be overestimated. It's just a logo for an alpha state game to include it into the trailer. Do not put so much work in it! It can be changed later! Finishing the trailer us more important, than the right logo yet. ;)
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby pil » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:03 pm

The design of a logo is not art, it's graphic design. Design is not about taste, it's about function. I'm a design teacher, and that's the first idea we have to breed into our novice students. In the evalutation of the quality of a design, there's no place for "I like it" or "I don't like it". There are rules, there are technique skills, there are functionality aims. The aesthetics must serve the function. It's more a thing of "Does it work or not".
If somebody wants to know more about logo evaluation, here is a basic text to start with: http://www.logosharx.com/logo-design-tips/evalogo.htm

Another diferent qüestion I'd like to talk about is the habit. When we are very accustomed to a design, sometimes it takes a while to accept a redesign. Maybe graphic user interfaces are an easier example: when we are very used to the gui of a software, and it suddenly changes with a new version, we may be lost and even angry, we use to be resistant to the changes. But often, after a while, when we get used to the new interface, we realize it's an improvement. The same thing can happen with corporate identities. I woud'nt take too seriously the opinions who say they prefer the old logo, they just need to get used to a new one, whether it's this one or a newer version.
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby ssilk » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:38 pm

That's a good page, you mentioned.

And to finish my opinion:
I mean for me it's no question, that the current logo must be redesigned, I saw it as placeholder from beginning. The font, the color... But (!) with the time I found, that the wheel is ok. Very ok! It's the most important thing in the current logo. So it is good. If so many teeth are needed: doesn't matter, as long, as the wheel is recognizable.

So what's left? The position of the wheel, font and the color. Position: at the end is ok. But I can imagine the wheel also much bigger, or making inner and outer wheels, so that it overlaps the letters and brings all together again (not FACT-O-RIO, more Fac-tOr-io or Fa-ctOri-o or F-actOrio - understand the symmetrics?)

The font: well. Taste. The current discussion is not good, because the font is nearly identical. For myself I think a more edgy font could work also, because that would make it easier to draw it with factorio entities, and isn't the whole factorio world not very edgy? And round forms doesn't match so well to the current art/design (steampunk). But the font is currently not so important.

And color: orange isn't gonna work. Let's say we want to redesign the forum into a darker, more factorio steampunk style, then the orange will disturb heavily. No, it must be dark and there needs to be many details on it, when looking near.

And that's my last point: make it so, that it is a building. The factorio home/castle, whatever. A rotating wheel and some rooms, cable, pipes etc. which do mysterious stuff. It can be introduced later into the game and then the player will know "ahhh, that's why the game is called factorio, because the building looks like the letters factorio, cool idea!"
And useing that also as logo is just the next step. :)
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby battleship2424 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:15 pm

I like the current logo due to the fact that the copper/metallic look is more appealing than the rustic look. That said though the 3D effect is great looking. I think the right one would look better if the "F" was not white. With that fix I would vote for the right logo. However, due to the originality of the current logo, I chose to vote for the current logo.
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby Psycho0124 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:23 pm

I liked logo #1s shape and font a lot but I voted for the old logo on the basis of the color. There's something just flat appealing about that nice dirty-but-shiny brass/bronze color. Search "brass gear" on google images and look at some of the stuff there. It's beautiful.

The brass gear says "craftmanship," "elegant complexity," and "precision" to me while the dark grey gear just says "dirty industrial".
Maybe a dark iron logo with the nice brass gear from the origional logo? We'd get to keep a nice desktop icon too! What do you guys think?
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby MF- » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:16 pm

Psycho0124 wrote:I liked logo #1s shape and font a lot but I voted for the old logo on the basis of the color. There's something just flat appealing about that nice dirty-but-shiny brass/bronze color. Search "brass gear" on google images and look at some of the stuff there. It's beautiful.

The brass gear says "craftmanship," "elegant complexity," and "precision" to me while the dark grey gear just says "dirty industrial".
Maybe a dark iron logo with the nice brass gear from the origional logo? We'd get to keep a nice desktop icon too! What do you guys think?


Agreed.. The new proposals are cold iron pieces. Immutable.
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby glex » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:23 pm

MF- wrote:
Psycho0124 wrote:I liked logo #1s shape and font a lot but I voted for the old logo on the basis of the color. There's something just flat appealing about that nice dirty-but-shiny brass/bronze color. Search "brass gear" on google images and look at some of the stuff there. It's beautiful.

The brass gear says "craftmanship," "elegant complexity," and "precision" to me while the dark grey gear just says "dirty industrial".
Maybe a dark iron logo with the nice brass gear from the origional logo? We'd get to keep a nice desktop icon too! What do you guys think?


Agreed.. The new proposals are cold iron pieces. Immutable.


It's very good to know your preferences about texturing and colours, really. But the discussion here is mainly about the general shape.
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby SilverWarior » Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:25 pm

From the presented ones I must say I like the original logo the most.
Things that bother me in new ones are next:
1. New gear with only 8 teeth actually doesn't look like gear to me especially not with stripe based hole in the middle instead of the round one.
2. I don't like flatnes of the new fonts. They just seem as 3D representation of regular single colored font. But if you take a look at original Factorio logo font it seems that it has double edges. So even if old Factorio logo font is just in 2D it doesn't seem as just baing that. It has this 3D feel (like looking at 3D font from topdown perspective).
3. I personally think that placing gearwheel instead of last O is a mistake. To me it seems much better if it is placed instead of first O. But I can see ho placing this 8 teht gearwheel on first O place could give you feeling as it splits Factorio in two parts "Fact-O-rio". But I belive that is not becouse of the placment itself but becouse of the bad gearwheel look as it doesn't quite similar to O as I already mentioned above.
4. And finally I dislike the new logo colors or lack of it. It is the richness/liveliness of original Factorio logo that makes it even more atractive.
Personall thoughts:
I personally don't understand the general trend of using monotonus colours that is present these days. I mean just take a look at many programs you can find these days on computers and compare them to similar programs in past. Back in the days when computers were barely capable of rendering 256 individual colors some programs looked more lively than the programs nowadays when computers are capable of rendering 32 milions of individual colors.



So what are my suggestions for improvment? That depends on whay you actually want to improve.

If you want to improve the splash/loading screen then I suggest next:
- keep the original logo or if necessary change the base font but retain font color and that double edge effect on it
- keep the gearwheen as it is and make it be a part of coveyor belt that is moving from one side of the screen to another
- put some inserters in the background of how they are placing some objects on this conveyor belt
So in the end this should look as sideway recording of a busy conveyor belt section.
This would definitly show the main goal of the game and would actually make watching splash/loading screen enjoyable.

Now if you want to make logo suitable so that it can be potentionaly printed out on a box (if you ever decide to sell boxed versiuon of the game) none of the new fonts won't be verry suitable. Why?
Becouse their height. For them to look similar they would have to be bulged out to much. This would in the end make them look bad and be unpractical as tey could damage quite quickly during shippinh.
Using existing font for this would be excelent becouse of its double edge look (you can easily make font to be a bit bulged out from the box and double edge would reduce the chances for this font to get damaged).

Now if you want to make logo so that it can be easily printed out ot a T-shirt then you are forced to use simple color and preferably no 3D look. While 3D look seems apealing when you are looking at it from certain perspective it loses all of its apeal when you are loking it from different perspective (try looking at 3D font and watching your monitor from the side).


I might give you some more suggestions but I would first like to know more about where you intend to use this logo. There isn't any logo design which would be suitable for everywhere.
Besides this post is getting pretty long already :D
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby LoSboccacc » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:15 pm

of logo 1 I don't really like just the F - it is too different from all the other characters, having the corners so much more cut
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby Gammro » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:52 pm

I think logo 1 is definetly the one to work further on. I like the general idea the most, and has the most potential.
As LoSboccacc said, I like the F the least, it doesn't really fit the rest because the corners are more cut off.
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby Nova » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:12 pm

glex wrote:It's very good to know your preferences about texturing and colours, really. But the discussion here is mainly about the general shape.

Sorry, but I don't know how we should discuss the logo without speaking about color and texture. ^^
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Re: Friday Facts #12

Postby ssilk » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:37 pm

This discussion reminds me to many discussions with my customers.

This situation: we sit in a conference room and we want to show, how the products, which a customer want to sell, are displayed, how the categories work, how he can search, etc. We show him the first prototype and tell him before: this is a prototype. The fonts, the colors, the positions of the boxes, even the ordering can be changed, but we can't change the logic! So please don't watch at the font, colors etc, watch the logic of the application. And the customer nods.

So we show the first screen. And the customer says: well, that's not the font we use, and by the way, isn't the red of the background not red enough?

Head -> Wall :)

@glex: what really worked was to make prototypes, which had really ugly font, no colors, no style. This was the only way to pull the attention of the customer to the content and not his style. :)

And this is needed, because as said by pil: design is not about taste, it's about functional aims and I think most of the writers mix that up. :geek:
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