I absolutely agree with everything that you say. The problem is, that "my spagetti is this way" vs "my spagetti is that way" is not real variation. What this causes, as you say, that this is a playstyle thing, which simply makes one playstyle significantly worse than another one. I have been playing for a while, and I do not have a blueprint book for a main bus system, I design it a little bit differently each time I play. Often I end up with localized spaghetty scenarios, which can then be readapted into a grid-like rail base.
The problem is, that now instead of "I target a main bus system", there is an enforcement of "you can not have a main bus system, because you have to jump through some hoops first".
This is a design decision to lengthen the gameplay without adding additional content.
I feel this way with the artillery lockout, which was announced, and I am pretty sure that a bot lockout is coming as well.
This just enforces, that you have to play a specific way, or not play at all. Currently, I can resonably rush cliff explosives, and that makes a playstyle possible, where I can be as main-bussy as I want with reasonable ressource investments.
WIth the current shown friday facts, I will have to do so 3 (three) times at least, each time having to replay "you can't craft anything - spaghetti - megabase". A reasonable counterargument is "we will have to see, if it really is that way", and I also agree on that.
But what worries me a lot, is as I mentioned before, that SE is having exactly the same problem gameplay-wise. All planets and all technologies rotate around "Big enrichment building-useless byproducts which you can not void-recycler"-loops. If on top of that I have to do that in enforced spaghetti at least 3 times for a playthrough, this is as unfun as it gets for me.
The last five years I played only deathworld marathon. I find biters an interesting, constant enviromental threat, but yes, indeed, I do think that vanilla is lacking automation for proper engagement far enough into the lategame. It's really tiresome to expand walls, I usually do it with artillery trains and blueprints, which work in many iterations.
I do indeed find the placement of mining outposts the weakest gameplay part of vanilla factorio. It is so boring and unfun having to set up the same stupid miner rows, which deplete too fast, and ressources scale too little with distance, plus the trains, which lack automation. I am really really looking forward to the new miners and trains, they will make that part way more fun.
I also have a small tiny sliver of hope that artillery will start charting chunks, so that expansion can be automated further, seeing as how remote view is also a thing in 2.0.
You can't crack heavy oil without water, which means you are going to be importing water, or doing the recycler loop and voiding stuff.
I know, but it's as in previous FFF stated, that that landfill is "lategame" tech, so it is the third iteration of having to rush the landfill.
I like bots myself, but don't conveyors also have a place in your heart as well? The whole "limit the build area" thing affect more or less belts only, tbh. It would be even more tiresome just plopping down assembler-2logichest malls, than having to run spaghetti. I mean, I don't even have a real complaint about the whole buildable ground thing, but having the same "mechanic" of not being able to build where you desire THREE times in a playthrough in a building game just sounds uninspiring.
I also won't, but I just don't find the storage overflow mechanics fun. I also did not like the old oil, where you had to sit on a huge surplus of liquid, until you reach the needed technology. And at that time, in my opinion, the decision to streamline oil was the right one, which made the blue science jump way more bearable.MeduSalem wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:39 pmDon't be ridiculous. The items the scrap gives are easily broken down into first-tier intermediate items like plates and plastic. You don't even need a 3rd cascade of recyclers to get to it.
It just replaces your usual setup of first tier assemblers like furnaces/oil refineries.
Also there is good use for a lot of the items the scrap gives so you don't have to craft them. So you probably don't even need to recycle everything all the time. I know I won't and I will only start recycling something when I can't get the resource I want otherwise or chests start overflowing from the excess.