We support Ukraine

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Constable
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Constable »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xcfJY6QwnY

Russians were not there at that moment. In the video, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, this is their equipment, but not the Russians, the Russians were not there at that moment.

Overlord218
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Overlord218 »

jakeman27 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:11 pm
Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:59 pm
jakeman27 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:23 pm
Constable wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:47 am
Russian tanks try not to break ANYTHING
Sure...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xcfJY6QwnY
Nice video, but here is problem, this is Ukrainian tank.
Precisely 9K35 Strela-10
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K35_Strela-10
And suddenly it out of service in Russia from 1976 (military don't use it anymore)
The first versions were put in service in 1976, the Ukrainian Army do also use them as per the link you sent but that source also quotes Russia as having 350 in current use.
service in 1976
Sorry, my bad. But anyway it's a Ukrainian (or maybe Donetsk/Lugansk) vehicle because Russian army have newer vehicles

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Overlord218 »

enterisys wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:13 pm
Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:59 pm

Nice video, but here is problem, this is Ukrainian tank.
Precisely 9K35 Strela-10
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K35_Strela-10
And suddenly it out of service in Russia from 1976 (military don't use it anymore)
Correct it is UA tank, russians managed to sieze it with another truck and storm into Kyiv to wreck havoc. There are other videos of UA forces neutralizing truck and shooting at the tank. They are disturbing I will not post them.
Proof? Not video from Youtube. Comment section on this video talks about Ukrainian forces shoots at each other (it is possible since Ukrain gov. give weapon to anybody in Kiev)

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:15 pm
18 years old boys don't participate in this conflict. (It's not a war, it's a special operation. USA did the same in past).
Want more power? Examples please. He want more power when Russia sold gas and oil to Europe so european people can warm up on winter?
18 years old boys don't participate in this conflict - unconfirmed, as both you and me don't have any reliable age information on composition of russian troops.
Want more power? - Power - noun The ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority. Rejecting other nation decision to do whatever they want is not trying to exercise more authority over them?

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Saippuakauppias »

Donetsk and Luhans was crisis setup and fueled by putin. And now putin is leading Russia to doom.
Around 5 billion people wants to eliminate him, he really has no exit route anymore. Either Russians themselves eliminate putler or existence of human race is endangered by full scale nuclear war.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Constable wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:18 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xcfJY6QwnY

Russians were not there at that moment. In the video, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, this is their equipment, but not the Russians, the Russians were not there at that moment.
From your video "And it is believed to have been driven by pro-Russian "saboteurs" - who also stole a military truck before they were killed by soldiers."

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by jakeman27 »

enterisys wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:23 pm
Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:15 pm
18 years old boys don't participate in this conflict. (It's not a war, it's a special operation. USA did the same in past).
Want more power? Examples please. He want more power when Russia sold gas and oil to Europe so european people can warm up on winter?
18 years old boys don't participate in this conflict - unconfirmed, as both you and me don't have any reliable age information on composition of russian troops.
Want more power? - Power - noun The ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority. Rejecting other nation decision to do whatever they want is not trying to exercise more authority over them?
Rejecting another nation's decision to do what they would like is exactly exercising more authority over them?

Overlord218
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Overlord218 »

enterisys wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:23 pm
Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:15 pm
18 years old boys don't participate in this conflict. (It's not a war, it's a special operation. USA did the same in past).
Want more power? Examples please. He want more power when Russia sold gas and oil to Europe so european people can warm up on winter?
18 years old boys don't participate in this conflict - unconfirmed, as both you and me don't have any reliable age information on composition of russian troops.
Want more power? - Power - noun The ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority. Rejecting other nation decision to do whatever they want is not trying to exercise more authority over them?
unconfirmed, as both you and me don't have any reliable age information on composition of russian troops.

I agree with you, i don't have information on composition of russian troops. But i have friends in army (18 - 20 y.o. boys who conscripts now and they told me that they have regular exercises (planned thing not some hideous invasion in other country).
(I know, it's a bad proof but at least it something more firsthand than news on TV/Internet)
Power - noun...

Nothing add here. It's just quote from dictionary.
Rejecting other nation decision to do whatever they want is not trying to exercise more authority over them
Okay, but hear me. In Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea some part of civilian is Russian. And Ukrainian military attack them (in Donetsk and Luhansk) therefore Putin tries to protect Russian people.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Overlord218 »

enterisys wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:26 pm
Constable wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:18 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xcfJY6QwnY

Russians were not there at that moment. In the video, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, this is their equipment, but not the Russians, the Russians were not there at that moment.
From your video "And it is believed to have been driven by pro-Russian "saboteurs" - who also stole a military truck before they were killed by soldiers."
And other people talk (at commentary section) about Ukrainian military.
Besides, Russian forces wasn't in Kiev on 25 february

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Gergely wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:52 am
Suddenly politics?
enterisys wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:40 pm
These guys get paid 15RUB/post, can the mods please address them.
My guess is that censoring trolls is not coherent with defending the "free" world. That's kind of how you know you are the "free" world no ?

I'm surprised too that this topic is not considered inapropriate, but positively surprised because even if sometimes discussions lead to escalation and worst, it's still the better way to solve problem than threats and violence imo.

Snicker wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:25 am
I dont think in any time of recorded history there has been clearer what side evil and good is on.
There are probably millions of people thinking the same for both sides maybe not to that extreme, but with propaganda and simplistic explanation you can go really far. I think that emphasize why "free expression" is important so you can read whatever, the more you diversify your sources and point of view the less ridiculous your reasonning, and argument because not everyone value the same things the same way or has learned the same things at school .
You can help too, even if it is just with your voice. World leaders are listening: every voice counts.
ok here's mine : Hey world leaders, would you please be kind enough to stop sending your subjects to kill each other and instead get something done about the climate ? Or something like agreeing on a plan for the next time there is something like COVID ? Maybe something like working together for sharing space like people do in a familly ? What about collecting plastic in ocean ?

That would be a better way to stay in history than in a top 10 list of brutal warlord. Thank you.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by jakeman27 »

Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:33 pm
I agree with you, i don't have information on composition of russian troops. But i have friends in army (18 - 20 y.o. boys who conscripts now and they told me that they have regular exercises (planned thing not some hideous invasion in other country).
(I know, it's a bad proof but at least it something more firsthand than news on TV/Internet)


Okay, but hear me. In Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea some part of civilian is Russian. And Ukrainian military attack them (in Donetsk and Luhansk) therefore Putin tries to protect Russian people.
The Russian Army is some 1million strong, knowing some people in that age group is not really any proof at all. Also in any Military orders are given to groups, those in charge as ranks increase know more and more of the whole picture but the 18yo recruit in training is not going to be briefed on what the rest of the forces are doing.

With regards to the regions you mention, it is known conflict has been occurring there for the last 8 years, the reasons, composition and backing of those fighters are in dispute. However, if we were to assume they were indeed trying to protect the Russians in those regions then why would the whole country need to be invaded? Why has Russia not raised this at the UN security council along with evidence of what is occurring?

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:33 pm
I agree with you, i don't have information on composition of russian troops. But i have friends in army (18 - 20 y.o. boys who conscripts now and they told me that they have regular exercises (planned thing not some hideous invasion in other country).
(I know, it's a bad proof but at least it something more firsthand than news on TV/Internet)

A lie. As a russian troop you are officially not allowed to carry any mobile (only military equipment) to any "drill/excersice". How exactly you spoke to them?
Okay, but hear me. In Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea some part of civilian is Russian. And Ukrainian military attack them (in Donetsk and Luhansk) therefore Putin tries to protect Russian people.
And in Donetsk, Luhansk some part is Ukrainian and russian troops attack them as confirmed by OSCE. Putin also tries to protect them?

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:37 pm
And other people talk (at commentary section) about Ukrainian military.
You cant assume just because a VW is german all VWs are driven by germans.
Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:37 pm
Besides, Russian forces wasn't in Kiev on 25 february
And they never will be.

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:47 pm
My guess is that censoring trolls is not coherent with defending the "free" world. That's kind of how you know you are the "free" world no ?

I'm surprised too that this topic is not considered inapropriate, but positively surprised because even if sometimes discussions lead to escalation and worst, it's still the better way to solve problem than threats and violence imo.
But these bots are not free. They have a clear agenda full of the same lies for which russian official TVs were banned.

Overlord218
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Overlord218 »

jakeman27 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:48 pm
Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:33 pm
I agree with you, i don't have information on composition of russian troops. But i have friends in army (18 - 20 y.o. boys who conscripts now and they told me that they have regular exercises (planned thing not some hideous invasion in other country).
(I know, it's a bad proof but at least it something more firsthand than news on TV/Internet)


Okay, but hear me. In Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea some part of civilian is Russian. And Ukrainian military attack them (in Donetsk and Luhansk) therefore Putin tries to protect Russian people.
The Russian Army is some 1million strong, knowing some people in that age group is not really any proof at all. Also in any Military orders are given to groups, those in charge as ranks increase know more and more of the whole picture but the 18yo recruit in training is not going to be briefed on what the rest of the forces are doing.

With regards to the regions you mention, it is known conflict has been occurring there for the last 8 years, the reasons, composition and backing of those fighters are in dispute. However, if we were to assume they were indeed trying to protect the Russians in those regions then why would the whole country need to be invaded? Why has Russia not raised this at the UN security council along with evidence of what is occurring?
UN security council
AFAIK UN security council tends to ignore some opinions and statements.
The Russian Army is some 1million strong
I don't know exact numbers (never interested in this topic to be fair), but i heard that there is around 100k Russian troops in Ukrain. (Not regular army, most part is contractors (people who get paid for military duty and some people from Kadyrov's personal forces (some sort of spec.ops.))

Overlord218
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Overlord218 »

enterisys wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:51 pm
Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:33 pm
I agree with you, i don't have information on composition of russian troops. But i have friends in army (18 - 20 y.o. boys who conscripts now and they told me that they have regular exercises (planned thing not some hideous invasion in other country).
(I know, it's a bad proof but at least it something more firsthand than news on TV/Internet)

A lie. As a russian troop you are officially not allowed to carry any mobile (only military equipment) to any "drill/excersice". How exactly you spoke to them?
Okay, but hear me. In Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea some part of civilian is Russian. And Ukrainian military attack them (in Donetsk and Luhansk) therefore Putin tries to protect Russian people.
And in Donetsk, Luhansk some part is Ukrainian and russian troops attack them as confirmed by OSCE. Putin also tries to protect them?
confirmed by OSCE
And when Ukrainian military attack Russian people on Donetsk and Luhansk OSCE ignore it.
As a russian troop you are officially not allowed to carry any mobile
Official doesn't mean practical. Sad truth is rules are sometimes broken.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:57 pm
AFAIK UN security council tends to ignore some opinions and statements.
Its called operating facts and not "opinions".

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Overlord218 »

enterisys wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:53 pm
Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:37 pm
And other people talk (at commentary section) about Ukrainian military.
You cant assume just because a VW is german all VWs are driven by germans.
Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:37 pm
Besides, Russian forces wasn't in Kiev on 25 february
And they never will be.
You cant assume just because a VW is german all VWs are driven by germans
I never did. (Besides, this vehicle is SOVIET. I think, damn Bolsheviks drew it)
And they never will be
Please share why?

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Overlord218 »

enterisys wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:00 pm
Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:57 pm
AFAIK UN security council tends to ignore some opinions and statements.
Its called operating facts and not "opinions".
Ok they ignore facts. You good?

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by jakeman27 »

Overlord218 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:57 pm
UN security council
AFAIK UN security council tends to ignore some opinions and statements.
The Russian Army is some 1million strong
I don't know exact numbers (never interested in this topic to be fair), but i heard that there is around 100k Russian troops in Ukrain. (Not regular army, most part is contractors (people who get paid for military duty and some people from Kadyrov's personal forces (some sort of spec.ops.))
Facts and evidence are what is needed, if credible evidence is supplied then things will not be ignored and if they are then there are mechanisms for raising them further as is currently happening. Russia has never supplied this as far as I am aware so It can't be dismissed as being ignored.

There are around 200k Russian troops with approx 150k currently committed to the invasion

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