We support Ukraine

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FuryoftheStars
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by FuryoftheStars »

enterisys wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:57 pm
[…] russian trolls can sleep peacefully.
You ain’t kidding. Quietest this thread has been in a while….

tuhe
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by tuhe »

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:12 pm
enterisys wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:57 pm
[…] russian trolls can sleep peacefully.
You ain’t kidding. Quietest this thread has been in a while….
The trolls never intended to convince anyone. These are not setbacks in other words, it's all part of the plan. And that plan was to distract everyone by posting youtube talks by John Mearsheimer until Putin could shift the subject of discussion to what is TRULY important, concern-trolling about cancel culture!

boolybooly
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by boolybooly »

IMHO the justification of preventing Ukraine from joining NATO is just a cover story Putin is selling to Russian armed forces to mask his real priority to prevent an orange revolution in Russia so that democracy is not established and he is not held to account for his many crimes of theft and murder.

These include the assassination of opponents like Boris Nemtsov using Chechen gangsters and poisoning of political opponents like Yushchenko, along with false imprisonment and suspected poisoning of opponents like Tymoshenko and Navalny to prevent democracy in Ukraine and Russia or any agenda which could challenge his own.

This is why Jo Biden is saying this is a struggle between democratic and authoritarian systems of government and I agree. Russia is not a democracy, its a criminal dog eat dog mafia. Lukashenko is like the criminal sidekick of the bad guy from a spaghetti western, controlling Belarus through the threat of Russian murderers.

Putin wanted Yanukovych to do the same for Ukraine so he would feel comfortable he had control.

That is not democracy it is despotism.

Its not about security either, it is about despotism. Russians are killing Russians in Ukraine, because the crimelord Putin fears judgement.

ピックスフォルジュ
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by ピックスフォルジュ »

Now, I don't like war all that much and I can't care less about this one, but...
- If you genuinely believe anyone you disagree with is a Russian bot, you're delusional, thoughtless and you're only fueling the flame for a bigger war, which will hurt more people.
- If you think stamping Ukraine flags everywhere and shouting "I LOVE UKRAINE!" makes you look good, same as above.
Lots of people here shitting on Russian propaganda without being aware that they're no better, little mutts controlled by the American government through social media and mass television. It's sad.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

ピックスフォルジュ wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:56 pm
Now, I don't like war all that much and I can't care less about this one, but...
- If you genuinely believe anyone you disagree with is controlled by the American government through social media and mass television. It's sad.
I have edited your quotation, i'm sorry i think it was like a perfect puzzle

War sucks, not need for social media or TV to know this.

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

ピックスフォルジュ wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:56 pm
I can't care less about this one
Yet you log in and make your first post. Surely you care.

FuryoftheStars
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by FuryoftheStars »

enterisys wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:03 pm
ピックスフォルジュ wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:56 pm
I can't care less about this one
Yet you log in and make your first post. Surely you care.
Exactly my thoughts, too.

Zentay
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Zentay »

boolybooly wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:48 pm
IMHO the justification of preventing Ukraine from joining NATO is just a cover story Putin is selling to Russian armed forces to mask his real priority to prevent an orange revolution in Russia so that democracy is not established and he is not held to account for his many crimes of theft and murder.
This is what I also believe. Putin doesn't feel threatened by NATO, he feels threatened by the success of former USSR states that became more like western European countries ("westernized"). He knows that after Ukraine westernizes, it would probably only be a matter of time until Russians demand change too. And that would mean the end of his autocratic regime.

tuhe
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by tuhe »

ピックスフォルジュ wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:56 pm
Now, I don't like war all that much and I can't care less about this one, but...
- If you genuinely believe anyone you disagree with is a Russian bot, you're delusional, thoughtless and you're only fueling the flame for a bigger war, which will hurt more people.
- If you think stamping Ukraine flags everywhere and shouting "I LOVE UKRAINE!" makes you look good, same as above.
Lots of people here shitting on Russian propaganda without being aware that they're no better, little mutts controlled by the American government through social media and mass television. It's sad.
So you have worked out everyone is under the influence of propaganda, but you have achived true enlightened centrism, which makes you care so little you registered an account to preach to the unenlightened masses?

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

Zentay wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:42 pm
This is what I also believe. Putin doesn't feel threatened by NATO, he feels threatened by the success of former USSR states that became more like western European countries ("westernized"). He knows that after Ukraine westernizes, it would probably only be a matter of time until Russians demand change too. And that would mean the end of his autocratic regime.
You are from former USSR states, Or live in Russia? How did you find out about life in Russia?
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Zentay »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:29 pm
You are from former USSR states, Or live in Russia? How did you find out about life in Russia?
I'm from a country just west of the former iron curtain and was thinking not about former USSR countries but about countries on the eastern side of the iron curtain, like the Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Lithuania. Freeing themselves from USSR / Russian influence helped them a lot.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

Zentay wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:42 pm
I'm from a country just west of the former iron curtain and was thinking not about former USSR countries but about countries on the eastern side of the iron curtain, like the Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Lithuania. Freeing themselves from USSR / Russian influence helped them a lot.
Can you tell me how they got better?
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

boolybooly
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by boolybooly »

Zentay wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:42 pm
boolybooly wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:48 pm
IMHO the justification of preventing Ukraine from joining NATO is just a cover story Putin is selling to Russian armed forces to mask his real priority to prevent an orange revolution in Russia so that democracy is not established and he is not held to account for his many crimes of theft and murder.
This is what I also believe. Putin doesn't feel threatened by NATO, he feels threatened by the success of former USSR states that became more like western European countries ("westernized"). He knows that after Ukraine westernizes, it would probably only be a matter of time until Russians demand change too. And that would mean the end of his autocratic regime.
Yes, Putin does not have good intentions for Russia, its all about him, he is a thief and like Stalin he would kill as many Russians as it takes to keep himself in power.

Russia would do much better as a democracy, there are many smart and good people in Russia who could lead it well and bring prosperity and the people of the west have sacrificed much to help the desperate states of Russia and China in their decades of need by helping their economic development by channeling our own economic prosperity through theirs, sharing investment, knowhow and IP. Our governments could have stopped that but they didn't, they tried to make it work. We have already had our revolutions, in the UK that was 400 years ago, China and Russia are still catching up. Only a paranoid would deny the benefits of that cooperation and many people in the west lost out on jobs and income because of it. The sacrifice was real. Globalisation was not an attempt to control, it was profitable but the cognoscenti also recognised it was an attempt to channel natural warlike instincts into commerce and industry and thereby tame the beast of tribal war which is in every human, especially males, before something like this happens again on a world scale. In Russia it looks like it failed, for now.

Putin does not care about that, he is using war to avoid his comeuppance, killing people so that he can stay in control. Projecting memories of the second world war as false scenarios to justify his misdeeds but there is no justification in these fantasies.

People of vision like Gorbachev can see the bigger picture and he in particular had the humility to stand aside and let others take over and he survives because he was wise and did no evil. Putin's grouping is not that smart. It had the strength to bring Russia out of chaos after perestroika but did not have the moral compass or imagination they needed to move towards the future Gorbachev envisioned. The killing of Nemtsov in particular was a wrong turn and trapped them in a doom of their own making along with the rest of Russia. A successful democracy needs its opposition because, as we know all too well, power corrupts.

I really do feel sorry for them but agree with what Joe Biden said, Putin "cannot remain in power". That is for Russia's sake as well as Ukraine's, if you care about Russia's future. Whether he will or not is another matter because he surely doesn't care about Russia, he is just looking after himself and is evidently powerless to resist his own impulse to fight for survival. Russia will suffer until someone finds the strength to restrain Putin.

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Filter62
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Filter62 »

Only thing I regret, that Russia didn't start this operation back in 2014, that would've been faster with less casualties, I support Russia, no to Ukranian nazis.

FuryoftheStars
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Filter62 wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:09 am
Only thing I regret, that Russia didn't start this operation back in 2014, that would've been faster with less casualties, I support Russia, no to Ukranian nazis.
Same old argument that’s been debunked in multiple ways over these 70 some odd pages. Do you actually have anything new and original to add to the discussion?

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Zentay »

In 2012, the European Union and Ukraine signed an association agreement which was a first step towards membership.

Putin said this was a threat to Russia. A few years later Russian aggression against Ukraine started.

Ukraine is likely to benefit a lot from association and eventual membership in the EU. The impression is that Russia wants to make Ukraine pay for making the decision to improve their country and turning away from Russian influence.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Russian trolls waking up

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

Bad, that they posted a video where guys with blue armbands shoot at prisoners without armbands. Now even fewer people will return from the war.

Good thing the war will be over soon. Soon the Ukrainian military will liberate Kherson, Mariupol and Izyum and chase the invaders and Russia. Is it already clean near Kyiv? The Russians have been surrounded there for a long time ago.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:03 pm
Now even fewer people will return from the war.
Mate youre playing with fire calling it war. Big brother is watching.
Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:03 pm
Good thing the war will be over soon. Soon the Ukrainian military will liberate Kherson, Mariupol and Izyum and chase the invaders and Russia. Is it already clean near Kyiv? The Russians have been surrounded there for a long time ago.
Yes, it seems Ukrainians are more honest with their promises or claims than russians. Maybe there is no Ukrainian propaganda at all? Even thinking that's it's martial law in Ukraine and military control all information, on the contrary there is no war in russia yet military still controls information.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Filter62 »

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:23 am
Filter62 wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:09 am
Only thing I regret, that Russia didn't start this operation back in 2014, that would've been faster with less casualties, I support Russia, no to Ukranian nazis.
Same old argument that’s been debunked in multiple ways over these 70 some odd pages. Do you actually have anything new and original to add to the discussion?
Whatever you debunked, good for you. You won't change my opinion.
And btw, it's clear for me this forum is 90% covered in racist trolls and russian haters, there's no point in discussing anything here on this forum.
Have a nice day. Goodbye.

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