We support Ukraine

[Rubeus]

Djmixxx v2

Nah, this ruskibot gave up too easy, we need some professional propaganda abuser.

Ruskibot here. Heh. You just don't realize how many ad hominem attacks you've been using this whole time, do you? And you realize that every news article that's not banned in Europe is news from the official Ukrainian narrative - AKA propaganda, right?

Russia sucks.
Ukraine sucks harder. And this Ukraine thing is turning into the next "I support the thing" like LGBT/BLM/Covid where people militantly support it without having any real idea what it's about.
The monetary and weapon support of Ukraine (or Russia) is tantamount to supporting more lives killed in a political and pointless war.

So far, every argument I've heard for supporting Ukraine is anti-Russian sentiment. If you hate Russia - that's cool, but at least come out and say it, and say that you want genocide or whatever. I've not even seen the typical "Ukrainian national sovereignty" argument. It all comes down to "Russia bad, anyone that disagrees with killing Russians is a propaganda bot".

I've not heard 1 single argument to support Ukraine. Why should I, as someone unrelated to the conflict, condone this and send money to support the extension of this killing?

There's humanitarian crises happening all around the world - to say it's to help the people won't fly - why Ukraine instead help the people in Afghanistan, Somalia, Chad, etc?

The only thing you all have said is that we should support Ukraine because Russia is bad, and attack me instead of the question of why.

So again, I reiterate my point: I don't like that a company I want to support supports the pointless killing of people in this conflict.
And I pose the question: If I'm wrong, as you say, what then makes Ukraine worth supporting over other countries currently in wars?

The war started the 24th of february, the conflict contrary to your words had direct and significant impact on wheat prices BEFORE any sanctions were taken, just knowing that there is a war is enough for investor to understand that there will be devastation and that food crisis is looming, some of them buy to secure food for their population, some of them to speculate and make money. Your argument of the prices steadily increasing for over a year can be heard but when you put numbers on it and try to be precise , one has to realize it's full of crap no ?

Like I said, this doesn't take all into consideration - it's the cost someone pays to a distributer. Part of the reason for this increase is the lack of planting that was done last year. Many farmers couldn't afford to run a tractor long enough to plant all their fields. The price of diesel and electricity is one of the things that makes or breaks what we can do, and energy prices have been steadily rising in a lot of producer countries for 2 years.
Distributes also typically have warehouses that hold things like grain that can be held long term in hopes they can sell some during off-season or during a crisis to make a bit of extra money. Couple this supply with a short harvest, and it allows the market to absorb a year of bad harvest without much of a price spike. (If this were not true, you would see a huge spike every winter to summer during non-harvest season.) This effect neutralized the price spikes in '21 until they realized the extent of the short harvest - not just due to what the farmers planted, but due to crops spoiling due to not being able to find transportation to the market. There's silos full of food that have all been plowed into the ground because they rotted.
This is just some of the complexity of the agriculture market. As I said, the graph doesn't do well portraying everything - it's like looking at a stock ticker graph and assuming you know how that company is performing. A ticker is a general indicator. (Disclaimer: I don't grow grain.)

[enterisys]

Ruskibot here. Heh. You just don't realize how many ad hominem attacks you've been using this whole time, do you? And you realize that every news article that's not banned in Europe is news from the official Ukrainian narrative - AKA propaganda, right?

Yes, it appears Ukraine controls every reporter in the world, controls US, NATA and whatnot.

Russia sucks.
Ukraine sucks harder. And this Ukraine thing is turning into the next "I support the thing" like LGBT/BLM/Covid where people militantly support it without having any real idea what it's about.
The monetary and weapon support of Ukraine (or Russia) is tantamount to supporting more lives killed in a political and pointless war.

You say if Ukraine stops fighting so will russia? Just like absurt amount of war crimes they did in occupied villages where there was no resistance.

So far, every argument I've heard for supporting Ukraine is anti-Russian sentiment. If you hate Russia - that's cool, but at least come out and say it, and say that you want genocide or whatever. I've not even seen the typical "Ukrainian national sovereignty" argument. It all comes down to "Russia bad, anyone that disagrees with killing Russians is a propaganda bot".

I've not heard 1 single argument to support Ukraine. Why should I, as someone unrelated to the conflict, condone this and send money to support the extension of this killing?

Again, you claim that you are unrelated to the conflict, but your agenda clearly indicates that you know much more about Ukraine history and situation than any regular non-Ukrainian.
And there is only one country which military news are full not of own problems but of the stubborn neighbour's.

So again, I reiterate my point: I don't like that a company I want to support supports the pointless killing of people in this conflict.
And I pose the question: If I'm wrong, as you say, what then makes Ukraine worth supporting over other countries currently in wars?

Because currently no other country is at war. If you don't know what war means I'm sure you'll be competent enough to google it.

[mmmPI]

Ruskibot here. Heh. You just don't realize how many ad hominem attacks you've been using this whole time, do you? And you realize that every news article that's not banned in Europe is news from the official Ukrainian narrative - AKA propaganda, right?

I showed you article from the USA, Australia, and you posted from TimesofIsrael, in the thread are article from various places including south america, india and China. Those sometimes use the word "war" to describe the war in Ukraine. You think the whole world except Russia decided to follow Ukraine propaganda ? and only in Russia the news are correct, because they have a law to put you in jail for 15 years if you criticize the "military operation" by calling it a "war" therefore everywhere in the world people are following Ukraine propaganda ? because they call a "war" a "war" ?

Even many russian journalists left Russia to continue informing russian speaking people from abroad.

Russia sucks.
Ukraine sucks harder. And this Ukraine thing is turning into the next "I support the thing" like LGBT/BLM/Covid where people militantly support it without having any real idea what it's about.

And what does the treaty say the consequences are?
The Minsk accords were the reason Russia gave. I don't know if it's true or not, nor if they were justified in their invasion or not, but it's irrelevant to the point of why I should support a corrupt country in defense of another.

You are doing the opposite of supporting, but you do it without having any real idea what it's about, you recognized it yourself.

So far, every argument I've heard for supporting Ukraine is anti-Russian sentiment.

But also you say :

I gave up reading and responding to the replies.

I've not heard 1 single argument to support Ukraine. Why should I, as someone unrelated to the conflict, condone this and send money to support the extension of this killing?

Have you tried reading the replies instead of repeating the question ? You would hear the argument then, unless you just here to ask the question repeatdly ?

There's humanitarian crises happening all around the world - to say it's to help the people won't fly - why Ukraine instead help the people in Afghanistan, Somalia, Chad, etc?

You may read the first post by Wube that justify the existence of the thread. Otherwise why you say "instead" ?

The only thing you all have said is that we should support Ukraine because Russia is bad, and attack me instead of the question of why.

Your first post on this thread contain lies, then you insulted another person, then said you don't read the answers to your question, which cause you to have a wrong impression that fuel your paranaioa that you are attacked for your opinion and not for your lies and dishonnesty coupled with a selective ignorance . it was said many times that you don't "have to" you are free to support but it is not mandadory, however when you are lying and insulting Ukraine in a thread called "We support Ukraine" you can reasonnably expect to be contradicted

When you say "the only thing all you have said..." this is a strawman.

So again, I reiterate my point: I don't like that a company I want to support supports the pointless killing of people in this conflict.
And I pose the question: If I'm wrong, as you say, what then makes Ukraine worth supporting over other countries currently in wars?

I gave up reading and responding to the replies.

You can ask 100 times the question, your point has been adressed and you refuse to read the answers why ?

Like I said, this doesn't take all into consideration - it's the cost someone pays to a distributer. Part of the reason for this increase is the lack of planting that was done last year. Many farmers couldn't afford to run a tractor long enough to plant all their fields. The price of diesel and electricity is one of the things that makes or breaks what we can do, and energy prices have been steadily rising in a lot of producer countries for 2 years.
Distributes also typically have warehouses that hold things like grain that can be held long term in hopes they can sell some during off-season or during a crisis to make a bit of extra money. Couple this supply with a short harvest, and it allows the market to absorb a year of bad harvest without much of a price spike. (If this were not true, you would see a huge spike every winter to summer during non-harvest season.) This effect neutralized the price spikes in '21 until they realized the extent of the short harvest - not just due to what the farmers planted, but due to crops spoiling due to not being able to find transportation to the market. There's silos full of food that have all been plowed into the ground because they rotted.
This is just some of the complexity of the agriculture market. As I said, the graph doesn't do well portraying everything - it's like looking at a stock ticker graph and assuming you know how that company is performing. A ticker is a general indicator. (Disclaimer: I don't grow grain.)

This ridiculous because there is no relation to the dramatic spike in prices of wheat barley and maize exactly at the time of the beginning of the war. They realized it exactly at the moment where Putin decided to ruin millions of lives ? the 24th of february ? Look at the graph and use your brain, there is a huge spike at the exact time of the invasion attempt, it reached all time high since 2008 crisis. One of the sharpest increase ever in prices in such small time span.


Also this is contradictory with what you really said that spawned me to post the graph to show your lies :

I know why food prices are high - and the Russia/Ukraine thing is just one piece causing it. The prices had been steadily increasing for over a year. This conflict only had an impact on the fertilizers recently - and this only due to the international reaction to this conflict in the forms of lame duck sanctions. I could go on and on about this topic

Reminder : No this is another lie from you

The war started the 24th of february, the conflict contrary to your words had direct and significant impact on wheat prices BEFORE any sanctions were taken

https://www.macrotrends.net/2534/wheat- ... chart-data
Wheat price per bushel :

alltimehighsincewhen.png (37.91 KiB) Viewed 2509 times

pricewherealreadyincreasingandsanctionthing.png (29.11 KiB) Viewed 2509 times

Read the article from which was extracted the other graph they explain that barley planting season was just after the end of winter, ( the mud that played against russian offensive) now today, the war is still happening, fuel supply is low in Ukraine, you still cannot plant barley, therefore barley future contract are not created because some of those cereral sold on the market are purchased by internationnal buyers when they are planted, not when harvested, this means the increase in cost for future contract drives investor to stockpile what they can due to fear of food insecurity or speculation, everyone know that next year will be a poor harvest because of the war, there is a mechanic report of the money toward alternative, this impact wheat, and maize because those can bee subsitute for livestock feeding or cooking, a shortage in one is impacting the others, a shortage in all 3 is dramatic for the people who rely on those as primary food source, but it also increases the price of meat in countries where people are richer and have more diverse source of food they don't risk starving, they have inflation.

If only 2 person in the village have some field on which the whole village rely to go through winter, the whole village may feel pissed off if one of those two attempt to burn and destroy the other field because that mean half of the village won't have food the next winter, guess what, the prices increases right away people do not wait the first cold days, and the poor half of the village will suffer more.

[enterisys]

There's humanitarian crises happening all around the world - to say it's to help the people won't fly - why Ukraine instead help the people in Afghanistan, Somalia, Chad, etc?

The only thing you all have said is that we should support Ukraine because Russia is bad, and attack me instead of the question of why.

Here is my reply to any actual civilized citizens reading and not ruskibots:
The memory of WW2 is fresh, it started with annexation of Poland by Germany and russia and ended with millions of dead.
One would think that people learned from such mistake and territory occupation/full-scale warfare is a thing of the past but here the history repeats itself.
The possibility that if Ukraine falls and joins forces with russia, next it is going to be Poland or some Baltic state, and soon after that - another Britain bombings.
So as they say it - burn it before it hatches.

[mmmPI]

Here is my reply to any actual civilized citizens reading and not ruskibots:
The memory of WW2 is fresh, it started with annexation of Poland by Germany and russia and ended with millions of dead.
One would think that people learned from such mistake and territory occupation/full-scale warfare is a thing of the past but here the history repeats itself.
The possibility that if Ukraine falls and joins forces with russia, next it is going to be Poland or some Baltic state, and soon after that - another Britain bombings.
So as they say it - burn it before it hatches.

I think you meant "the soviet union" at the time.

[mmmPI]

There is one person in the thread that wrongfully stated that all news in Europe is Ukraine propaganda, here is an exemple of why i use the word "wrongfully" :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpC1kXhW2Lw

Colonel Markus Reisner of the Austrian Armed Forces describes how the fighting in eastern Ukraine developed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bf1ApN6fYA

This is a bit more recent news from Ukraine if one wants to compare

[enterisys]

I think you meant "the soviet union" at the time.

Is there a difference since russia is a successor even legally.

[mmmPI]

I think you meant "the soviet union" at the time.

Is there a difference since russia is a successor even legally.

Well some would argue that Putin is nostalgic of the soviet union and he want to rule not only Russia. He himself for example.

Also this : https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/05/23 ... -russians/

[Rubeus]

Big bad Ruskibot™ and apparently serial liar here. (Note to mmmPI's comment about grain prices: look up something other than grain - which is more directly impacted. Here's one: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/rice Note the continuing price increase since 2019. How about potatoes now? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPU01130603 But... I'm lying about that, too. The graphs are Russian propaganda!)

Where do reports from Ukraine come from? Ukraine, Russia, and independent journalists.

The independent journalists are dismissed as an unreliable source. That's understandable, but it limits sources to the other 2.
Russian news is considered propaganda and censored, as someone pointed out, across Europe and in many other places.
The Ukranian news agencies, as well as Axios, Reuters, etc that provide the international news to others get their news through Ukraine. Ukraine is censoring everything they consider propaganda.

Therefore, yes: Everything across the world in regards to Ukraine is potentially Ukrainian propaganda. It's absolutely ridiculous to think otherwise.

As I said, it all needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Here is my reply to any actual civilized citizens reading and not ruskibots:
The memory of WW2 is fresh, it started with annexation of Poland by Germany and russia and ended with millions of dead.
One would think that people learned from such mistake and territory occupation/full-scale warfare is a thing of the past but here the history repeats itself.
The possibility that if Ukraine falls and joins forces with russia, next it is going to be Poland or some Baltic state, and soon after that - another Britain bombings.
So as they say it - burn it before it hatches.

So, you believe Russia is the enemy and want to stop them. Thank you for clarifying that position. So, rather than "support Ukraine", you want to "Stop Russia". That is an important distinction - but I can respect that.

But here's the part that bothers me about it: right now, "Supporting Ukraine" means sending them money and weapons. This isn't going to win a war - only prolong. If it meant the international community was banding together to stop it with overwhelming force? That would be a different conversation entirely. Surely you agree on this point?

PS: I've been insulted along the way the whole time as a Russian bot and a liar. To whine about me calling out a statement as dumb is a little childish, don't you think? And you know what? I'll do it again: mmmPI trying to use 1 graph of 1 commodity price to tell me what my market is doing - despite taking the time to educate - and calling me a liar for it is a fantastically foolhardy thing to do. Wait, no, it's lying. Yes: it's a flat out lie. (I can sling lying allegations, too.)

[mmmPI]

Big bad Ruskibot™ and apparently serial liar here. (Note to mmmPI's comment about grain prices: look up something other than grain - which is more directly impacted. Here's one: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/rice Note the continuing price increase since 2019. How about potatoes now? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPU01130603 But... I'm lying about that, too. The graphs are Russian propaganda!)

Yes you clearly are lying again when you say potatoe or rice are more impacted by the war than wheat or cereals, you put the graph yourself you must not have look at them.

It just confirm what i said that the stupid war is causing the food crisis on the whole world due to its major impact on cereal prices.

Russia slams sanctions, seeks to blame West for food crisis

from the very western aljazeera, take it with a grain of salt :
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/2 ... ood-crisis

Ukraine is one of the world’s largest exporters of wheat, corn and sunflower oil, but the war and a Russian blockade of its ports have halted much of that flow, endangering world food supplies. Many of those ports are now also heavily mined.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken noted last week that food, fertiliser and seeds are exempt from sanctions imposed by the US and many others — and that Washington is working to ensure countries know the flow of those goods should not be affected.

With the war grinding into its fourth month, world leaders have ramped up calls for solutions.

“This food crisis is real, and we must find solutions,” World Trade Organization Director-General Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala said on Wednesday at the World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, Switzerland.

[mmmPI]

As I said, it all needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Why did you claim Zelensky went touring to the United states couple times then ? you forgot to take it with a grain of salt when you read it from Russian news ?

[sight]

English is not my native language, the text is made with the help of a translator, the meaning could be distorted, there may be translation errors.

At the beginning, I as a Russian player, it was unpleasant to me at the that the creator of this game approved of this topic, Wube specifically chose the side of the conflict, and even actually wrote that they support anti-government sentiment in my country (Russia),"We support Russians that stand against the actions of the Russian government." no, I do not treat Ukraine or its people badly, like most Russians, we sincerely wish Ukraine and its the people are well, but not under the influence of the West, because the West uses it for its own purposes against us and this is a fact, but you will not understand it if you do not live in Russia, and even if you lived here, it is not a fact that you would understand it, because before the blocking of many Western media in Russia, all these media were engaged in only one thing, constant attempts to compromise our government, is that what the objective media do? All their news carried a purely negative character aimed either at condemning our authorities for inaction in everything, or covering exceptionally bad news with not a direct hint of the guilt of the authorities, but this, according to their idea, followed from this.
Naturally, this had a strong influence on people who do not understand politics, especially on young people, especially since our government absolutely did not interfere with these media, isn't this a sign of freedom of speech?, the Western media literally brainwashed our population, it got to the point that part of the population began to treat their country badly, call it disparaging words, treat it was bad for the authorities (and after all, they regulate all the orders in the country) and this became the partical norm among the population, especially among young people, we also had a Bolotnaya Square (fortunately, the protests failed), an analogue of the Maidan in Ukraine (the protests were successful, let the Ukrainians themselves decide for good or not) or the protests in Belarus (also fortunately failed), as a result, the government began to realize the seriousness of the risks of statehood, and was forced to take measures by restricting some freedoms, most of them restrictions on the work of Western media, mainly those who have been compromising Russia as a country for years, probably you don't know but the economies of our countries they are closely connected and it is advantageous for the West to weaken them, which is exactly what they have been doing for many decades.

Perhaps someone here will be interested in how it is now in Russia, what people think, what is happening in general, I do not pretend to be objective, because I do not know everything and I can only express my purely subjective point of view.

Do we have propaganda on TV, yes of course there is, as in any country, I am not a supporter of it, but if our authorities do not replace Western propaganda with it, then the people will absorb someone else's, so this is probably a forced measure.

Nevertheless, I think it is orders of magnitude weaker than the one shown by the Ukrainian media for its population, I have some acquaintances in Ukraine, and in communicating with them it seems that they are figuratively told that the Russian military literally eat people alive and drink the blood of babies, let it be on the conscience of their authorities and the collective West, but this logic is not new and it is clear to me, if you are familiar with the term color revolutions, then you will have no questions about how hatred is being whipped up among the young population, usually children and rape are being used en masse in the media, this works very effectively, in the West they know very well how to fabricate and submit it correctly.

Do most people in Russia support the authorities in current events, personally, according to my feelings, yes, do they understand the real causes and circumstances of the problem well, I think not, do people in Russia support violence against the population of Ukraine, definitely not, a lot of their relatives live in Ukraine.

What is the attitude to Navalny in Russia?
He is not interesting to anyone, absolutely, he is a political corpse, probably according to the idea of the West, bringing him to the altar of "freedom", he should have turned out to be a martyr for the Russian people (probably in the Western media they talk about how people in Russia worry about him, but fortunately this is not the case, probably you will have to live a couple years in Russia to find at least someone who worries about him), but something went wrong, and he just went to prison, perhaps under a far-fetched and fabricated pretext, but for undermining the stability of the country, this is still a very mild punishment, I saw some of his debates when he wanted to run for president, I was ashamed of him, he can't do anything but criticize the government, he offered absolutely nothing, his whole message was, I'll become president and then I'll figure out how to do everything cool, 0 constructiveness.
But in the beginning, he really persuaded quite a few people to his side, although this curiously coincided with the time when the Western media criticized the authorities in the country as much as possible.

Do people in Russia believe in the poisoning of the Skripals?,
I would like to answer the question with a question, what is the point of sending a former traitor, whom the Russian authorities pardoned and released? what kind of threat he poses and what risks to the authorities, and the risks to the authorities if something happens to him. Skripals in Russia is a meme.

Russia is accused of high energy prices, this is ridiculous, at first there were contracts, the EU was not satisfied with it, they wanted to pay less, switched to spot prices at the request of the EU, and the EU seems to be satisfied, but after a while the prices rose, the EU was again not satisfied, with all this, they constantly put pressure on Russia. that is, Russia supplies the goods, and they tell her how to do it, okay, apple's tactics are ok, let's say Russia agreed to everything, how long was it prevented from building a gas pipeline?, she built, but attention, because of internal EU laws, only half is allowed to pump through this pipeline, well, when the conflict began in Ukraine in February 2022, the Western world, including the EU, froze about $ 300bn to Russia, what should Russia do next to supply gas for free? Naturally, Russia has taken measures to ensure that the money Europe pays is on Russia's accounts, it also needs to somehow give money to foreign investors in the end, if Europe is ready to suffer for the sake of the interests of the United States, this is its right.

Approximately with many other things the situation is similar. It is easier to blame the KGB agent Putin for all the sins of humanity than for politicians of other countries to admit their mistakes, it is very convenient.

Some people in this topic are trying to find the truth, or the reasons for what is happening, this is welcome, the desire to understand the origins of the problem allows you to avoid this in the future, but there is one simple reason why, it is unlikely to be able to find it here, everything is very simple, to understand any conflict, you need to listen to the arguments of both sides of the conflict, here, the second side of the conflict can be said to be absent, this is the forum of the European game developer, if the developers could throw off the statistics of the IP addresses of the countries of the answers on the forum, I think this would clearly show that there are practically no responses from users from Russia here, and those that still exist are unlikely to be heard. From the Russian player's side, it's like coming to a temple and starting to preach atheism to the parishioners of this temple, I think the analogy is very clear.

Now, I am probably more neutral about this topic, but this is my personal attitude, because after a while there will be more understanding, including whether the decision to create it was right. Probably without making it Wube could lose more in sales in other markets than to lose in a not so big Russian market like business is nothing personal. But somewhere deep inside I would like to believe that they were really guided by humanitarian considerations, and not by a trend.

[enterisys]

Big bad Ruskibot™ and apparently serial liar here. (Note to mmmPI's comment about grain prices: look up something other than grain - which is more directly impacted. Here's one: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/rice Note the continuing price increase since 2019. How about potatoes now? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPU01130603 But... I'm lying about that, too. The graphs are Russian propaganda!)

Where do reports from Ukraine come from? Ukraine, Russia, and independent journalists.

Again wrong - russian reports can't come from Ukraine because russian so called military journalists are not allowed to come to Ukraine.
It leaves us to Ukrainian media which you obv don't read and international media which gains nothing from reporting anything but news.
Yet you choose to copy-pazste russian military media and accept it as fact without of your "grain of salt".

The independent journalists are dismissed as an unreliable source. That's understandable, but it limits sources to the other 2.
Russian news is considered propaganda and censored, as someone pointed out, across Europe and in many other places.
The Ukranian news agencies, as well as Axios, Reuters, etc that provide the international news to others get their news through Ukraine. Ukraine is censoring everything they consider propaganda.
Therefore, yes: Everything across the world in regards to Ukraine is potentially Ukrainian propaganda. It's absolutely ridiculous to think otherwise.

As I said, it all needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Yes, Ukraine is censoring facebook/twitter/youtube/etc, keep on believing. Wasn't it your motherland that banned such resources?

So, you believe Russia is the enemy and want to stop them. Thank you for clarifying that position. So, rather than "support Ukraine", you want to "Stop Russia". That is an important distinction - but I can respect that.

But here's the part that bothers me about it: right now, "Supporting Ukraine" means sending them money and weapons. This isn't going to win a war - only prolong. If it meant the international community was banding together to stop it with overwhelming force? That would be a different conversation entirely. Surely you agree on this point?

I believe in transformers, but my beliefs are not of your consern as well as twisting my replies.
Again google what war means and how WW2 was stopped. Google land lease to russia during WW2 and make your own conclusion whether russia would loose twice as many people if not for help of US to your country.

PS: I've been insulted along the way the whole time as a Russian bot and a liar. To whine about me calling out a statement as dumb is a little childish, don't you think? And you know what? I'll do it again: mmmPI trying to use 1 graph of 1 commodity price to tell me what my market is doing - despite taking the time to educate - and calling me a liar for it is a fantastically foolhardy thing to do. Wait, no, it's lying. Yes: it's a flat out lie. (I can sling lying allegations, too.)

But it clearly the case because you keep avoiding replying about obvious fact - you copy paste russian military propaganda without applying your own "grain of salt". And if you apply that very own propaganda to russia it will look much much worse in russia than in Ukraine.

[enterisys]

we sincerely wish Ukraine and its the people are well, but not under the influence of the West,

Ukrainians sincerely wish russia that "West" would stop raping children on russian territory, bomb russian civilians in moscow, torture russian men because they want to drive Audi and not lada.
Trust me bro - just turn of your military tv for 1 month and the "West" bombings will stop.

because the West uses it for its own purposes against us and this is a fact, but you will not understand it if you do not live in Russia, and even if you lived here, it is not a fact that you would understand it,

Yes, you are right, "West" does not know what is happening in russia because they don't care. If they cared this war would be over pretty soon, not like this 1v1 Ukraine versus russia.

because before the blocking of many Western media in Russia, all these media were engaged in only one thing, constant attempts to compromise our government, is that what the objective media do? All their news carried a purely negative character aimed either at condemning our authorities for inaction in everything, or covering exceptionally bad news with not a direct hint of the guilt of the authorities, but this, according to their idea, followed from this.

Objective of media is to provide independent opinion about facts.
1. Opinion can be independent if it not influenced by interested party - obviously goverment controlled media would not report bad about the goverment.
2. Media user can only make identify fact if presented by contradicting information to analyze - if there is nothing to analyze due to only one opinion, media user will not able to distinguish complete fake if presented.

You are a clear example of a brainwashed person - you use only one media and blindly trust that during 25 years of putin's reign he never did mistakes thus he qualifies for a supreme human, completely perfect AI without any flaws.

Naturally, this had a strong influence on people who do not understand politics, especially on young people, especially since our government absolutely did not interfere with these media, isn't this a sign of freedom of speech?,

By not interfering you mean complete banning of any other opinion, up to 15 years in prison for not agreeing with goverment.
I will remind you what "freedom of speech" means:
The right to express opinions without government restraint.

the Western media literally brainwashed our population, it got to the point that part of the population began to treat their country badly, call it disparaging words, treat it was bad for the authorities (and after all, they regulate all the orders in the country) and this became the partical norm among the population, especially among young people, we also had a Bolotnaya Square (fortunately, the protests failed), an analogue of the Maidan in Ukraine (the protests were successful, let the Ukrainians themselves decide for good or not) or the protests in Belarus (also fortunately failed), as a result, the government began to realize the seriousness of the risks of statehood, and was forced to take measures by restricting some freedoms, most of them restrictions on the work of Western media, mainly those who have been compromising Russia as a country for years, probably you don't know but the economies of our countries they are closely connected and it is advantageous for the West to weaken them, which is exactly what they have been doing for many decades.

Last time I checked more than 70% of russian population watches only government controlled media. How can other media which are far less represented brainwash a population?

Perhaps someone here will be interested in how it is now in Russia, what people think, what is happening in general, I do not pretend to be objective, because I do not know everything and I can only express my purely subjective point of view.

People here have their own problems and russia is not one of them to be interested in. Welcome to 21st century.

Do we have propaganda on TV, yes of course there is, as in any country, I am not a supporter of it, but if our authorities do not replace Western propaganda with it, then the people will absorb someone else's, so this is probably a forced measure.

How convenient, if someone asks not comfy questions of the government - just remove them.

Nevertheless, I think it is orders of magnitude weaker than the one shown by the Ukrainian media for its population, I have some acquaintances in Ukraine, and in communicating with them it seems that they are figuratively told that the Russian military literally eat people alive and drink the blood of babies, let it be on the conscience of their authorities and the collective West, but this logic is not new and it is clear to me, if you are familiar with the term color revolutions, then you will have no questions about how hatred is being whipped up among the young population, usually children and rape are being used en masse in the media, this works very effectively, in the West they know very well how to fabricate and submit it correctly.

1. russia with only russian military tv controlled by the goverment with only one controlled opinion
2. Ukraine where there are a) idependent news agencies from abroad b) couple state controlled channels established according to EU norms c) medai controlled by the wealthy which are constantly fighting each other for power and present completely different opinions.
And it is Ukraine that is full of propaganda.

Do most people in Russia support the authorities in current events, personally, according to my feelings, yes, do they understand the real causes and circumstances of the problem well, I think not, do people in Russia support violence against the population of Ukraine, definitely not, a lot of their relatives live in Ukraine.

80% of russians support so called "special military operation" (war)
70% of russians wants to be friends with Ukraine
I want to be friends but here catch a bomb.

What is the attitude to Navalny in Russia?
He is not interesting to anyone, absolutely, he is a political corpse, probably according to the idea of the West, bringing him to the altar of "freedom", he should have turned out to be a martyr for the Russian people (probably in the Western media they talk about how people in Russia worry about him, but fortunately this is not the case, probably you will have to live a couple years in Russia to find at least someone who worries about him), but something went wrong, and he just went to prison, perhaps under a far-fetched and fabricated pretext, but for undermining the stability of the country, this is still a very mild punishment, I saw some of his debates when he wanted to run for president, I was ashamed of him, he can't do anything but criticize the government, he offered absolutely nothing, his whole message was, I'll become president and then I'll figure out how to do everything cool, 0 constructiveness.
But in the beginning, he really persuaded quite a few people to his side, although this curiously coincided with the time when the Western media criticized the authorities in the country as much as possible.

Well surely when you compare to putin (ex spy) reign for 25 years without a single mistake he is no one.

Do people in Russia believe in the poisoning of the Skripals?,
I would like to answer the question with a question, what is the point of sending a former traitor, whom the Russian authorities pardoned and released? what kind of threat he poses and what risks to the authorities, and the risks to the authorities if something happens to him. Skripals in Russia is a meme.

Sadly he died of corona.
Bummer.

Russia is accused of high energy prices, this is ridiculous, at first there were contracts, the EU was not satisfied with it, they wanted to pay less, switched to spot prices at the request of the EU, and the EU seems to be satisfied, but after a while the prices rose, the EU was again not satisfied, with all this, they constantly put pressure on Russia. that is, Russia supplies the goods, and they tell her how to do it, okay, apple's tactics are ok, let's say Russia agreed to everything, how long was it prevented from building a gas pipeline?, she built, but attention, because of internal EU laws, only half is allowed to pump through this pipeline, well, when the conflict began in Ukraine in February 2022, the Western world, including the EU, froze about $ 300bn to Russia, what should Russia do next to supply gas for free? Naturally, Russia has taken measures to ensure that the money Europe pays is on Russia's accounts, it also needs to somehow give money to foreign investors in the end, if Europe is ready to suffer for the sake of the interests of the United States, this is its right.

Freezing russia assets is completely unrelated to gas supplies.
Gas is supplied by independent entity with unknown structure.
russia claims it is goverment owned but there is 0 evidence to support the case.
This indirrectly confirms that it is not government owned. Bummer.

Speaking of gas prices. Do you have idea why they rose 10x during last 2 years? Maybe certain monopolist on the market started limiting supplies to drive prices up due to economic shortage.

Approximately with many other things the situation is similar. It is easier to blame the KGB agent Putin for all the sins of humanity than for politicians of other countries to admit their mistakes, it is very convenient.

No one cares about russia or putin, they can do whatever they want with their slaves and nukes. We only wish the same applied to russians against rest of the world - it is not their business.

Some people in this topic are trying to find the truth, or the reasons for what is happening, this is welcome, the desire to understand the origins of the problem allows you to avoid this in the future, but there is one simple reason why, it is unlikely to be able to find it here, everything is very simple, to understand any conflict, you need to listen to the arguments of both sides of the conflict, here, the second side of the conflict can be said to be absent, this is the forum of the European game developer, if the developers could throw off the statistics of the IP addresses of the countries of the answers on the forum, I think this would clearly show that there are practically no responses from users from Russia here, and those that still exist are unlikely to be heard. From the Russian player's side, it's like coming to a temple and starting to preach atheism to the parishioners of this temple, I think the analogy is very clear.

You sure you checked all 130 pages of the topic? There are plenty of you kkomrade replies.

Now, I am probably more neutral about this topic, but this is my personal attitude, because after a while there will be more understanding, including whether the decision to create it was right. Probably without making it Wube could lose more in sales in other markets than to lose in a not so big Russian market like business is nothing personal. But somewhere deep inside I would like to believe that they were really guided by humanitarian considerations, and not by a trend.

You are clearly not neutral by calling that supporting Ukraine is bad and reposting that wall of text.

[enterisys]

More Ukrainian propaganda

[mmmPI]

English is not my native language, the text is made with the help of a translator, the meaning could be distorted, there may be translation errors.

At the beginning, I as a Russian player, it was unpleasant to me at the that the creator of this game approved of this topic, Wube specifically chose the side of the conflict, and even actually wrote that they support anti-government sentiment in my country (Russia),"We support Russians that stand against the actions of the Russian government." no, I do not treat Ukraine or its people badly, like most Russians, we sincerely wish Ukraine and its the people are well, but not under the influence of the West, because the West uses it for its own purposes against us and this is a fact, but you will not understand it if you do not live in Russia, and even if you lived here, it is not a fact that you would understand it, because before the blocking of many Western media in Russia, all these media were engaged in only one thing, constant attempts to compromise our government, is that what the objective media do? All their news carried a purely negative character aimed either at condemning our authorities for inaction in everything, or covering exceptionally bad news with not a direct hint of the guilt of the authorities, but this, according to their idea, followed from this.

This is quite tragic to read, there is no factual evidence to support the idea that "the west" is using Ukraine against Russia, you call it a fact but it's not a fact it's called an interpretation, an opinion, no factual event is going to back up this narrative, what really happened is that Russia attacks Ukraine and try to justify the aggression by shifting the blame toward the victims of the aggression. When economic pressure and gas blackmail from Russia on to Ukraine failed to secure a puppet corrupt regime that would stay under the economic orbit of Russia, then military personnel from Russia started to pour in Ukraine while people opposing the conflict in Russia where murdered in the streets :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Nemtsov

Furthermore, why would Russian head of state be the one that decide what is Ukraine doing with their politics ? You just write that Ukraine shouldn't be allowed to align their politics freely, but this is disrecpecting the soverignty of Ukraine, which Russia has pledged to protect. Just stating that Ukraine should or shouldn't align with such or such party is already something that is in breach with the treaties Russia signed when Ukraine agreed to give back their nuclear weapon after their independance in 1991. Ukraine according to internationnal law is free to sign a trade agreement with the EU if they decide so. The only problem here is that they may be successfull, it may show an example of a country whose history is intertwined with Russia that changing president every 5 years is compatible with improving standard of living. An example of successful post-soviet transition, like in the other countries that joined the EU after the fall of the USSR, when the economic hardship in Russia and former soviet republic was the a important cause for the interest in the "West".

Russia lost part of its influence over those countries overtime and resorted to threat and use of violence in order to steam the tide. Blaming the others for trying to find success on their own rather than as dependant state. This was not only the case for Ukraine, but also Georgia.

Naturally, this had a strong influence on people who do not understand politics, especially on young people, especially since our government absolutely did not interfere with these media, isn't this a sign of freedom of speech?, the Western media literally brainwashed our population, it got to the point that part of the population began to treat their country badly, call it disparaging words, treat it was bad for the authorities (and after all, they regulate all the orders in the country) and this became the partical norm among the population, especially among young people, we also had a Bolotnaya Square (fortunately, the protests failed), an analogue of the Maidan in Ukraine (the protests were successful, let the Ukrainians themselves decide for good or not) or the protests in Belarus (also fortunately failed), as a result, the government began to realize the seriousness of the risks of statehood, and was forced to take measures by restricting some freedoms, most of them restrictions on the work of Western media, mainly those who have been compromising Russia as a country for years, probably you don't know but the economies of our countries they are closely connected and it is advantageous for the West to weaken them, which is exactly what they have been doing for many decades.

You gave an highly oriented interpretation, the Russian government has been controlling increasingly strictly the media in the country since decades, beginning during the war against Chechnya, preventing independant reporting under the pretext of being a foreign agent is a method that is used against political opposition and journalists altogether, pushing repeatdly content seeking to influence public opinion to support a military action against a country or a people that dared to express the wish of not being an economical and political dependancy of a country whose head of state Vladimir Putin was becoming increasingly unpopular with the new generations whose aspiration in life are not the same as the conservative and self-isolating policy choosen.

This control of the media had some success in Russia, until 2011 or so where the need for election fraud first occur, from this point in time it has worsen faster. In Ukraine however Russian-state media did not succeed into making the population accept the decision of Viktor Ianoukovitch, (elected after a record breaking expensivly paid by Russian money political campain) to suspend the association agreement with the EU. Which prompted a coup that saw him fled to Russia.

From that time the state media were all-on to target Ukraine with propaganda preparing the annexation of Crimea in 2014 and never stopped in Russia to be controlled toward the obejctive of aquiring enough % of public opinion to either support the direct use of military agression toward Ukraine, or at least stay doubtful that opening military hostilities against Ukraine despite the history and the treaties and the feeling the both countries population may be necessary, good, motivated or positive for Russia .

When you look at other countries that decided to join the EU such as Poland , or Czech Republik, even East Germany, it's obvious that "the West" is not trying to weaken their economy. Its a plain lie to allegate intentions onto "the West" when you look at countries like Germany, France, Italy or the Netherland that are all historic member of the European Union and trading and sharing wealth with Russia, be it buying Oil and Gas, selling machines food medicine cosmetic cars clothes or technology, exchanging student, tourists sport players and space program.

Perhaps someone here will be interested in how it is now in Russia, what people think, what is happening in general, I do not pretend to be objective, because I do not know everything and I can only express my purely subjective point of view.

It was already clear that you were given a highly subjective interpretation, even so as to be oriented. Although your opinion is interesting for my personnal curiosity, I highly doubt your long text posted in the thread "We support Ukraine" was not tought out to try and influence people against the stand that was taken when it was opened and is doing so pretending it to be just a neutral voice trying to inform which is inconsistent with saying yourself you express your purely subjective point of view but you are publishing self-contradicting statement, in different part of the same long text as this part as this part located at the end shows with the highlight :

Now, I am probably more neutral about this topic, but this is my personal attitude, because after a while there will be more understanding, including whether the decision to create it was right. Probably without making it Wube could lose more in sales in other markets than to lose in a not so big Russian market like business is nothing personal. But somewhere deep inside I would like to believe that they were really guided by humanitarian considerations, and not by a trend.

There is a statement of kovarex on this thread page 5 which i'm not going to quote because as he must be busy making the game Factorio which is the game the forum is usually dedicated to, except for this thread where your only contribution is located a week after your registration which makes me think maybe you are a new player and in this case maybe you don't know kovarex is a founder of Wube, you could read that statement, or just re read the article that caused this thread to be opened in the first place, or look at the link above the forum to the charity that receive the money, instead of doing baseless insinuation.

Do we have propaganda on TV, yes of course there is, as in any country, I am not a supporter of it, but if our authorities do not replace Western propaganda with it, then the people will absorb someone else's, so this is probably a forced measure.

That makes you a supporter of it, one doesn't have to be resigned to read propaganda, one good thing in the world is that it's diverse and you can read many point of views from accross the globe which drastically reduce the impact of propaganda, that is when you don't consider the whole world is doing propaganda against you. The very fact that you consider different opinion should "replace" each other and cannot be expressed in their respective media is supporting censorship of different opinion. You justify evil by with another evil, this is not a forced measure, this is an opinion and a deliberate choice for one individual to consider propaganda is necessary and everywhere, dismissing regularly the will from human beings to satisfy their curiosity with factual information backed by evidence as a mean to fulfill their thirst for more knowledge, one of the driving factor of increased standard of living for human beings throughout the history when not repressed.

Nevertheless, I think it is orders of magnitude weaker than the one shown by the Ukrainian media for its population, I have some acquaintances in Ukraine, and in communicating with them it seems that they are figuratively told that the Russian military literally eat people alive and drink the blood of babies, let it be on the conscience of their authorities and the collective West, but this logic is not new and it is clear to me, if you are familiar with the term color revolutions, then you will have no questions about how hatred is being whipped up among the young population, usually children and rape are being used en masse in the media, this works very effectively, in the West they know very well how to fabricate and submit it correctly.

This is news from a person on the internet that claim he has acquaintances in Ukraine. This makes it a very low trusted source of information automatically for me. Especially when from an uncensored internet, one has accesss to Ukrainian news channel both those made for Ukrainians and news forwarded to internationnal audience. And that it is possible to also see and read Russian new article or TV shows, including those where the presentator that let his guest say that they could send tanks up to Berlin or Paris and nuke the USA is recognizing in front of the head of RT that they are losing the information war, but they will be winning the real war.

It's also ridiculous to try and legitimize the Russian propaganda comparing it with the so called Ukrainian propaganda when the reports of the United Nations are available in their their full lengh over the internet without any mediatic filter of any kind of political biais, same as the prices of grains or gas. The different representatives of different countries that expressed their opposition to the war are obvisouly not part of an imaginary ennemy that is called the collective West only when people attempt to pitch a narrative seek at dismissing the possibility for independant factual reporting that let people drive their own conclusion on the chain of consequences that lead to some events, by comparing different version, accessing facts, establishing chronology of event and research for significant event corroborated by evidence of their happening. ( that's called journalism)

Do most people in Russia support the authorities in current events, personally, according to my feelings, yes, do they understand the real causes and circumstances of the problem well, I think not, do people in Russia support violence against the population of Ukraine, definitely not, a lot of their relatives live in Ukraine.

As explained earlier with the 2011-2014 period of time, this is exactly why there is an all out propaganda hybrid warfare launched by Russia, not only conventionnal forces. The earlier attempt at euphemising the full-scale war by calling it a "special military operation" was an attempt at hiding the reality of the invasion to the population that only trust state TV to receive information, trying to hide the expectdly short war, as it was done in 2014 when Russian soldier did not wear their insigna and were called little green men. ( fact recognized later on in Russia which awarded medal ).

When the initial assault on Kyiv failed, after stalling for a month and the realization that it was not going to be possible to take a city that defend itself fiercly in a country united against the invasion, the narrative of the war apologist propaganda started to shift away because it was also not going to be possible to explain that the country was going to be liberated and instead the justification for the failure, in a continuous pattern of trying to diminish the success of the Ukrainian people, Ukrainian army, Ukrainian resistance, came under the form of blaming the collective west / global west depending on the translator.
[/quote]

What is the attitude to Navalny in Russia?
He is not interesting to anyone, absolutely, he is a political corpse, probably according to the idea of the West, bringing him to the altar of "freedom", he should have turned out to be a martyr for the Russian people (probably in the Western media they talk about how people in Russia worry about him, but fortunately this is not the case, probably you will have to live a couple years in Russia to find at least someone who worries about him), but something went wrong, and he just went to prison, perhaps under a far-fetched and fabricated pretext, but for undermining the stability of the country, this is still a very mild punishment, I saw some of his debates when he wanted to run for president, I was ashamed of him, he can't do anything but criticize the government, he offered absolutely nothing, his whole message was, I'll become president and then I'll figure out how to do everything cool, 0 constructiveness.
But in the beginning, he really persuaded quite a few people to his side, although this curiously coincided with the time when the Western media criticized the authorities in the country as much as possible.

Why do you bring up this talking point ? Can you enlight us on the relevancy of painting negatively the history of one person without telling us anything about his actual statement, factually prooven explanation of the stance he took about the war in Ukraine ?

You mention someone only to say bad things on him as if you were paid to smear a person. What did he say about Ukraine ?

Wouldn't it be similar to what Boris Nemtsov had to say before he was murdered ?

He wrote a report availble here :

https://archive.org/details/B-001-004-132

or here in .pdf

https://libertas-institut.com/wp-conten ... 150521.pdf

He seem to have a pretty different interpretation on absolutly everything you said in your post, so much that i imagine he would have been a very fierce political opponent of Putin, he had a constructive project, maybe his assassination was an attempt to intimidate everyone who could voice an alternative project ? You are talking about Navalny because he says he suffered assassination attempt ? I'm anticipating your next point since you mention another thing related with poisonning :

Do people in Russia believe in the poisoning of the Skripals?,
I would like to answer the question with a question, what is the point of sending a former traitor, whom the Russian authorities pardoned and released? what kind of threat he poses and what risks to the authorities, and the risks to the authorities if something happens to him. Skripals in Russia is a meme.

Maybe this is also a talking point you brought up in response of my own earlier mention of poisonning people to death, but i was refering to :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko

This is very different, look at the kind of thing that could have been considered a threat :

Two weeks before his poisoning, Alexander Litvinenko accused Vladimir Putin of ordering the assassination of the Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya and stated that a former presidential candidate, Irina Hakamada, warned Politkovskaya about threats to her life coming from the Russian president. Litvinenko advised Politkovskaya to escape from Russia immediately. Hakamada denied her involvement in passing any specific threats, and said that she warned Politkovskaya only in general terms more than a year earlier.[71] It remains unclear if Litvinenko referred to an earlier statement made by Boris Berezovsky, who claimed that Boris Nemtsov, a former Deputy Prime Minister of Russia, received word from Hakamada that Putin threatened her and like-minded colleagues in person. According to Berezovsky, Putin stated that Hakamada and her colleagues "will take in the head immediately, literally, not figuratively" if they "open the mouth" about the Russian apartment bombings.[72]

See now all 3 people mentionned are dead, Anna Politovskaia, Boris Nemtsov, and Alexander Litvinenko. Is this also a meme in Russia ? Who do you think create those meme ? what kind of information are people presented with to not see the obvious connexions between those murders ?

Russia is accused of high energy prices, this is ridiculous, at first there were contracts, the EU was not satisfied with it, they wanted to pay less, switched to spot prices at the request of the EU, and the EU seems to be satisfied, but after a while the prices rose, the EU was again not satisfied, with all this, they constantly put pressure on Russia. that is, Russia supplies the goods, and they tell her how to do it, okay, apple's tactics are ok, let's say Russia agreed to everything, how long was it prevented from building a gas pipeline?, she built, but attention, because of internal EU laws, only half is allowed to pump through this pipeline, well, when the conflict began in Ukraine in February 2022, the Western world, including the EU, froze about $ 300bn to Russia, what should Russia do next to supply gas for free? Naturally, Russia has taken measures to ensure that the money Europe pays is on Russia's accounts, it also needs to somehow give money to foreign investors in the end, if Europe is ready to suffer for the sake of the interests of the United States, this is its right.

Ukraine is supported because they are being waged a war of aggression against them, you should have read the opening post that spawned the topic instead of making a list of all the argument you could find to blame a 3rd party for the consequences of the war of agression, the very escalation of conflict into an all-out war which is dated to the day of Putin's speech saying he launched a "military operation" in february 2022 when thousands of russian tanks, russian military personnel, russian missile, russian trucks crossed the internationally recognized border of Ukraine and started to open fire on human beings killing thousands.

This is what is prompting the support for Ukrainian people that are dying.

You are making a strawman when you say Russia is accused of high energy prices. The blockade of Ukrainian ports , the tanks driving in the Ukrainian fields preventing farmers to work, when they are not trying to kill them those kind of things cannot easily be blamed on the EU in an effort to inverse the cause and the consequence where Russia's current leadership declare the war and attempted to paint themselves as taking the initiative of the necessary conflict that it thought i'd win, and upon the biter realization that it wouldn't be occuring later accused the reaction of other nations to be the cause of the problem not assuming the consequences of their action on the world stage when it (predictlably) run out of control and it became the dead end it is now in a move perfectly described here :

butnow.gif (3.29 MiB) Viewed 2321 times

Approximately with many other things the situation is similar. It is easier to blame the KGB agent Putin for all the sins of humanity than for politicians of other countries to admit their mistakes, it is very convenient.

Some people in this topic are trying to find the truth, or the reasons for what is happening, this is welcome, the desire to understand the origins of the problem allows you to avoid this in the future, but there is one simple reason why, it is unlikely to be able to find it here, everything is very simple, to understand any conflict, you need to listen to the arguments of both sides of the conflict, here, the second side of the conflict can be said to be absent, this is the forum of the European game developer, if the developers could throw off the statistics of the IP addresses of the countries of the answers on the forum, I think this would clearly show that there are practically no responses from users from Russia here, and those that still exist are unlikely to be heard. From the Russian player's side, it's like coming to a temple and starting to preach atheism to the parishioners of this temple, I think the analogy is very clear.

Hopefully you came here to enlight us, care to adress the few points i mentionned like the 3 murdered people namely Anna Politovskaia, Boris Nemtsov, Alexander Litvienko , or the report written both in english and russian from Russian politician ?

I am reading the whole thread and the articles that are linked, not just that, i am pretty well aware of the narratives repeatedly pushed by the agressing party in a forum called "we support Ukraine", i think it's again part of the intolerance you showed earlier when you say that people's different opinion are akin to propaganda and that one has to "replace another" or not.

You are trying to put 2 different thing at the same level and it's not the case,the thread is called "we support Ukraine" you can logically expect that people supporting Ukraine would express themselves and contribute to that thread. It's much less clear on the other hand, if you do not share the views why you come here to say people are wrong. Again playing the victimization speech, no-one ask you to go preach anything, you did it on your own and complain about the difficulty of the task that is questionnable to do in the first place. War apology/justification is difficult you say ? just don't do it, it's fine, it won't be missed having people justifying an ongoing war with lies. End the war, move russian troop back home and there is no need to preach for the war anymore. Easy.

[ptx0]

The independent journalists are dismissed as an unreliable source. That's understandable, but it limits sources to the other 2.
Russian news is considered propaganda and censored, as someone pointed out, across Europe and in many other places.
The Ukranian news agencies, as well as Axios, Reuters, etc that provide the international news to others get their news through Ukraine. Ukraine is censoring everything they consider propaganda.

don't forget in Russia pretty much all Russian-speaking media that disagrees with the Kremlin is banned.

not to say you can't get to other English language news media sites. they are not blocked.

but neither is Russian media, across Europe.

the only European country that bans media so far, is Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO9u0XT6O40

[ptx0]

Ukraine is censoring everything they consider propaganda.

Do we have propaganda on TV, yes of course there is, as in any country, I am not a supporter of it, but if our authorities do not replace Western propaganda with it, then the people will absorb someone else's, so this is probably a forced measure.

so in Russia, it's a defense mechanism to spread counter-intelligence (which is an incredible euphemism for being a fucking moron)

in Ukraine, this is the evil evil West, and it's bad to spread counter-intelligence

k, cool, thanks Ruskibots.

[enterisys]

One less reason to support Ukraine. Hopefully soon there will be no reasons to support.

[Rubeus]

Big bad Ruskibot™ and apparently serial liar here. (Note to mmmPI's comment about grain prices: look up something other than grain - which is more directly impacted. Here's one: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/rice Note the continuing price increase since 2019. How about potatoes now? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPU01130603 But... I'm lying about that, too. The graphs are Russian propaganda!)

Yes you clearly are lying again when you say potatoe or rice are more impacted by the war than wheat or cereals, you put the graph yourself you must not have look at them.

It just confirm what i said that the stupid war is causing the food crisis on the whole world due to its major impact on cereal prices.

Russia slams sanctions, seeks to blame West for food crisis

from the very western aljazeera, take it with a grain of salt :
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/2 ... ood-crisis

Ukraine is one of the world’s largest exporters of wheat, corn and sunflower oil, but the war and a Russian blockade of its ports have halted much of that flow, endangering world food supplies. Many of those ports are now also heavily mined.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken noted last week that food, fertiliser and seeds are exempt from sanctions imposed by the US and many others — and that Washington is working to ensure countries know the flow of those goods should not be affected.

With the war grinding into its fourth month, world leaders have ramped up calls for solutions.

“This food crisis is real, and we must find solutions,” World Trade Organization Director-General Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala said on Wednesday at the World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, Switzerland.

Are you so wrapped up in trying to insult me that you can't even comprehend a very simplified explanation? Try reading what I wrote again.

Better yet, let me dumb it down further for you.

I said:
1) The prices of all food production has been going up prior to the conflict (as evidenced by rice and potatoes),
2) that the conflict is only A PART OF increasing the cost of everything indirectly due to the cost of fertilizer, and
3) that wheat is impacted more directly by the conflict because they are producer countries.

And before you say "oh, but the US and some others exempted potash from the sanctions!"
What does a country do when they have an export that the world needs, but are hit with sanctions on most other exports? They levy massive export tariffs to make up for the loss on the sanctioned exports.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/potassiu ... spot_price

In other words, the price of food across the world would still be high right now, just not quite as high.

Now, do you want to call me a liar again? Because slapping down an arrogant rando like this is a type of fun this lying Ruskibot3000™ doesn't get to have too often.