We support Ukraine

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mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:36 pm

Well, I'd image that there'd be "back-end personnel" in with the 150-200k figure for the troops they did deploy into Ukraine, too, even if to a lesser extent. 200k seems like a paltry number out of a 3 mil capacity.

I do hope you're right, though.
There are couple things to consider, for example there are plenty military bases in Russia, with weapons and ammunition storage, there need be some military that protect them, those can't be sent to the front. Similarly there are soldiers that need to protect the whole borders, Russia is a huge country so there are soldiers in garnison in the east for example, near north korea.

Out of the 3 million you also have the "reserve" which is just people that did the military service once when they were younger. That represent 2 millions, those are not full time soldier and there is a very high political cost to mobilize them, especially if you deny the war and call it 'special operation'.

And in the 1 million left, you count all the military personnel, including many people who are working for the military but are not directly fighters, like people who organize the supply chain and the planes maintenance and things like that. Those are already active during the war, even though not counted toward the 200K. The 200K represent an estimation based on satellited images with vehicules, trains, tents , barracks and so on being visible it gave an estimation.

Those guys seem to have done the maths : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4wRdoWpw0w ( 20 min video from 5th of March 2022 )

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by tuhe »

Q: why are the troll obsessing about warcrimes?
A: because we are about to see some truly dark shit from the recaptured areas...

Looks like they went house to house in Irpin and gunned down civilians...
https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/151 ... Ibh9A&s=19

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by tuhe »

More from bucha. Early reports mention a mass grave with approx 280 people.
Warning: graphic
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ480PwA1 ... e=youtu.be
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/stat ... SBAgA&s=19
Last edited by tuhe on Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Yeah I really wanted to avoid grim 21+ stuff...

gGeorg
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by gGeorg »

mmmPI wrote:
Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:25 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olHRu_Ou4WI (2hours)
Security Council on Russia allegations of military biological activities in Ukraine (11 March 2022)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas

https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/04/u ... april-2022


Maybe you missed them because you are too busy copy pasting insult to people that are being attacked with tanks and missile ?

Did you know that copy pasting a fake news, makes you a liar, since you are very interested into the topic, maybe you should just stop copy pasting things that you seem not enough educated to understand ?
I dont reed all vomiting here.
Your link
https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/04/u ... april-2022
count causality since feb 2022. Therefore is not relevant to the subject of 14 thousand killed BEFORE military operation.

Your link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
says "Ukraine claimed 7,577[585]–14,600[586] separatists had been killed"
e.i. your links says, exact oposiit of your statement. Ukraina admits they killed such amount of people BEFORE military operation.
Use ctrl C , ctrl f , ctrl v features to find the specific line in the document.

Your link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olHRu_Ou4WI
is 2 hours video, i dont have time to go thru and search for a specific sentence you cut out. If you where it is, give the specific link with time stamp. Otherwise, this your source has same value like " it is on internet somewhere"

Wraps it around, I see you swearing other people on forum, and you didnt show any proof of your statements.
Therfore your presentation is heading to mark "mindless troll".
Last edited by gGeorg on Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

gGeorg wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:36 am
Wraps it around, I see you swearing other people on forum, and you didnt show any proof of your statements.
Therfore your presentation is heading to mark "midless troll".
They cannot confirm anything because they live in Ukraine. They will be found and shot for any information that does not look like what the President Zelinsky invents (and he lies and does not blush, the experience of working as a comedian helps a lot).
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

On March 27, in an interview with Russian journalists of the Meduza portal, Kommersant and Novaya Gazeta publications, as well as the Dozhd TV channel and the Zygar YouTube channel, President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky, in response to a request to clarify the story about the Russian warship and tell what there actually happened, reported:
part died. Part was taken prisoner... That's it. Those who were taken prisoner were changed - there was an exchange for the military of the Russian Federation. Russia came out with this proposal. We exchanged them without hesitation. That's all. Those who died, fell to death ... died ... they are, in fact, heroes for us. And those who survived - the guys, we exchanged, and that's it. We two made an exchange.
Trolls from Ukraine, where can I find the lists of those who died on the island?
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

https://www.freepressjournal.in/analysi ... t-casualty

At most times, human beings believe what they are programmed to believe. If you live in India, you will believe that Pakistan and China have nefarious designs on our territory and sovereign integrity. If you lived in Pakistan or China, you would probably believe the same of India. And, for most of the West, the Russians are still the cruel, bad guys, dominated by a Stalinesque leader – who channelises their cruelty – for world domination.

And, therefore believing the report that the Russians slaughtered 13 soldiers to prove a point, was easy to believe. The casting of Russia and Russians as evil, has been so pervasive, and so old, that it is easy to revert to the cold war caricaturing of the Russians as evil. Ronald Regan had famously called the Soviet Union the “Evil Empire” and that is a tag that many still believe in. It doesn’t help Russia that Putin fits into all the stereotypes that have been laid down in the Western playbook for describing Russia — cruel, expansionist, and ruthless.

There is enough and more academic research that correlates the spread of fake news to our predisposition to believe in a certain set of things. And the algorithms of social media platforms – especially Facebook and YouTube – keep feeding us with content that confirms our biases. There are enough and more studies that link these algorithms and what they recommend to extreme forms of radicalisation that end in violence and death.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

gGeorg wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:36 am
Wraps it around, I see you swearing other people on forum, and you didnt show any proof of your statements.
Therfore your presentation is heading to mark "mindless troll".
You are such a stupid person that you call for a source when figures aren't contested nor by the russian side, nor by the Ukrainian side and you refuse to acknoledge it.

I sent you a link to a video where i told you " THE RUSSIAN REPRESENTATIVE SAYS SOMETHING", then you complain you don't know what to look ? That's pretty easy, the intervention of the russian federation representative ? that sound like very very difficult to find for you in a 2H video where everyone talk in order ?


The link on wikipedia is saying figures that were reported by the OHCHR that's why i also posted a link to them so you can inform yourself about who they are.
gGeorg wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:36 am
Your link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
says "Ukraine claimed 7,577[585]–14,600[586] separatists had been killed"
e.i. your links says, exact oposiit of your statement. Ukraina admits they killed such amount of people BEFORE military operation.
Use ctrl C , ctrl f , ctrl v features to find the specific line in the document.
No the link doesn't say that you're a lier.

Since you refuse to read the links i dont know why you keep asking for some source :
stupidcantsee.png
stupidcantsee.png (6.79 KiB) Viewed 729 times
Maybe you didn't know but the little square with number in it refers to a source, if you want to know the source you can click the little numbers, it shows you the link to the source at the bottom of the page, and you can click there to go and read it so you are less ignorant.
Casualties
Main article: Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War

The number of confirmed fatalities (deaths) caused by the war was 13,100–13,300 as of the end of January 2021.[26] By the end of September 2021, the UN confirmed 3,393 civilians had been killed in the conflict. 312 of the civilian deaths were foreigners: 298 passengers and crew of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17,[29] 11 Russian journalists,[579] an Italian journalist,[580] one Russian civilian killed in cross-border shelling[581] and a Lithuanian diplomat.[582]
Ukrainian forces

Ukrainian government forces had lost a confirmed total of 4,641 killed servicemen by late February 2022, including 233 foreign-born Ukrainian citizens and 19 foreigners.[22][23][24][note 2] Another 70 Ukrainian soldiers were missing.[25]

Pro-Russian sources claimed Ukrainian forces had: 10,000 killed, 20,000 wounded and 13,500 deserted or missing, by late June 2015.[583]
Separatist forces

The separatists reported that they had lost 1,400 men at most as of the beginning of February 2015.[584] The United Nations reported 5,700 separatists were killed by the end of January 2021.[26]

Ukraine claimed 7,577[585]–14,600[586] separatists had been killed and 12,000 missing[587] during the fighting as of early 2015. They claimed an additional 103 Russian servicemen were killed between January and April 2016.[588]

An image of a reported separatist graveyard in Donetsk in late February 2015,[589] showed number plates running up to at least 2,213.[590] In late August 2015, according to a reported leak by a Russian news site, Business Life (Delovaya Zhizn), 2,000 Russian soldiers had been killed in Ukraine by 1 February 2015.[591][592] The US Department of State reported that by early March 2015, 400–500 Russian soldiers had died.[593]

By mid-February 2022, DPR separatist authorities reported that a total of 5,042 separatists and civilians had been killed in DPR-controlled territory,[594] while the LPR reported 1,328 people had died in the LPR by January 2018.[595]

This is what the previous link has to say. There is the reporting of several sides and also the date of the reporting, why you use the initial figure of february 2015 ? you also claim "during 8 years there was bombing", so just be consistent and read the document, not just one part to copy paste for your need.

In case you want even more information, since you clearly need some here is an updated article that also keep track of the people killed since the Russian invasion attempt. It keeps tracks of figures by different party, and attribute them, with the time of the reporting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualtie ... ainian_War
Initially, the known number of Ukrainian military casualties varied widely due to the Ukrainian Army drastically understating its casualties,[18] as reported by medics, activists and soldiers on the ground, as well as at least one lawmaker.[18][19][20][21][22] Several medical officials reported they were overstretched due to the drastic number of casualties.[18] Eventually, the Ukrainian Defence Ministry stated that the numbers recorded by the National Museum of Military History were the official ones, although still incomplete,[23] with 4,629 deaths (4,490 identified and 139 unidentified) cataloged by 1 December 2021.[12][13]

According to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 1,175 of the Ukrainian servicemen died due to non-combat causes by 5 March 2021.[24] Subsequently, the military did not publish new figures on their non-combat losses, stating they could be considered a state secret.[25]
It is also explained why some figures change over time, if you read the text to try and understand you get a different result that if you try to pick a sentence to copy paste to proove someone is lying. You took estimation of 2015, which is a war time estimation that can be inflated or not because those are military intelligence, but you voluntarily dismissed all other figure more recent like those published for historians and where data was compared with sources from the other side and reported altogether.

On the video from the UN council you can clearly hear the representative of the USA say that more than 13000 people where killed since 2014, and blaming Russia for it, then the representative of Russia says that in those 13000 most of them were fighter of the 2 separatist area, the translation from the UN of the word used is "victorious". Maybe you have a different translation ?
gGeorg wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:36 am

I dont reed all vomiting here.

Your link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olHRu_Ou4WI
is 2 hours video, i dont have time to go thru and search for a specific sentence you cut out. If you where it is, give the specific link with time stamp. Otherwise, this your source has same value like " it is on internet somewhere"
You post quite a lot of vomiting here, do you expect people to take time to investigate your hastly pasted crap while you can't be bother reading any argument that contradict you ?

You have time to cut out some sentence from a whole wikipedia page, maybe you didn't have time to read the whole page how does that work ? you just copy paste a sentence you cut out but you don't read all ? you think you are better informed this way ?

You make no difference between something like public UN council and private indiviudal posting vieo on youtube ? It's pretty easy though, the UN council is posted publicly by different sources which means if you ignore what has been said there, that makes you ignorant about the topic, that's like the law, you cannot asy " i didn't know". That's part of the public statement not interpretation, saying you didn't got the public statement is a proof of 1) your ignorance on the subject, 2) your ignorance about the ridicule of your posture of doubting someone who report official statement while those official statement are public.

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Djmixxx wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:14 am
https://www.freepressjournal.in/analysi ... t-casualty

At most times, human beings believe what they are programmed to believe. If you live in India, you will believe that Pakistan and China have nefarious designs on our territory and sovereign integrity. If you lived in Pakistan or China, you would probably believe the same of India. And, for most of the West, the Russians are still the cruel, bad guys, dominated by a Stalinesque leader – who channelises their cruelty – for world domination.

And, therefore believing the report that the Russians slaughtered 13 soldiers to prove a point, was easy to believe. The casting of Russia and Russians as evil, has been so pervasive, and so old, that it is easy to revert to the cold war caricaturing of the Russians as evil. Ronald Regan had famously called the Soviet Union the “Evil Empire” and that is a tag that many still believe in. It doesn’t help Russia that Putin fits into all the stereotypes that have been laid down in the Western playbook for describing Russia — cruel, expansionist, and ruthless.

There is enough and more academic research that correlates the spread of fake news to our predisposition to believe in a certain set of things. And the algorithms of social media platforms – especially Facebook and YouTube – keep feeding us with content that confirms our biases. There are enough and more studies that link these algorithms and what they recommend to extreme forms of radicalisation that end in violence and death.
Wow already linking sources admitting russia is manipulating media???

In the context of the current conflict, it is useful to look at the building of hate against Ukraine in Russia using social platforms.
The convincing of the people of Russia that the Ukrainians are fascists out to destroy Russia. But this is not just random foreign nations who get manipulated by social media.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

enterisys wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:11 am

And, therefore believing the report that the Russians slaughtered 13 soldiers to prove a point, was easy to believe. The casting of Russia and Russians as evil, has been so pervasive, and so old, that it is easy to revert to the cold war caricaturing of the Russians as evil. Ronald Regan had famously called the Soviet Union the “Evil Empire” and that is a tag that many still believe in. It doesn’t help Russia that Putin fits into all the stereotypes that have been laid down in the Western playbook for describing Russia — cruel, expansionist, and ruthless.

There is enough and more academic research that correlates the spread of fake news to our predisposition to believe in a certain set of things. And the algorithms of social media platforms – especially Facebook and YouTube – keep feeding us with content that confirms our biases. There are enough and more studies that link these algorithms and what they recommend to extreme forms of radicalisation that end in violence and death.
Wow already linking sources admitting russia is manipulating media???

In the context of the current conflict, it is useful to look at the building of hate against Ukraine in Russia using social platforms.
The convincing of the people of Russia that the Ukrainians are fascists out to destroy Russia. But this is not just random foreign nations who get manipulated by social media.
The classic argument from troll djmixxx , someone says the earth is flat, someone says the earth is a sphere, therefore it is impossible know, you only believe what you are told because of facebook and youtube especially, he posted all his post on this particular thread, for which he registered, one can see that by clicking his profile, 100% of his post are in here, on this particular thread, the pattern has been identified since it's been 30 days or so, it's not different from the 1rst one he posted.

That would be interesting as an article on its own if it wasn't a copy pasta put there randomly to serve a narrative. Why pointing at facebook and youtube ? and not weibo or vkontakt ? oh right because the aim is to critice the so called "anti-russia" feeling of the west, which is just pure bullshit since you have many pro-russian, and even pro-putin political party in the west, often funded directly by russia.

The article itself is saying that Putin is a person who is the stereotype of what is being criticized in the west. One doesn't need to be manipulated by social media to understand the sentence in bald, since it is present on an indian newspaper, that's not western social media, they too are aware that Putin is criticized for those, and not just some kind of irrationnal anti-russia feeling.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by doryjoge »

Guys, how will it end..? When russia disappears?

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by noclaf »

:idea: Respect to the Wube team for standing up for what's right :idea:
Indeed we have a long history of russian lies (and "help" we didn't want/need) and we won't forget no matter how many russian trolls here are spreading their bullsh*t about genocide in Luhansk and Donetsk. UA was definitely not a perfect country - but that's no difference to the rest of the post-soviet bloc (Lukashenko in BY, catolicism in PL, Orban in HU, corruption in RO...). And Russia has the least moral credit to "correct" anything anywhere.
With all the social networks and proliferation of phones, we are eye-witnesses to Russian pillaging, raping and murdering. If you decide not to believe to the "western propaganda" then GTFO to your paradise Russia.

Slava ukraini :!:

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

doryjoge wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 12:14 pm
Guys, how will it end..? When russia disappears?

I have no idea, but i look at the french who were a monarchy, then a republic then an empire, then a monarchy then a republic , then an empire then again a republic in like 200 years and there are still frenchmen and france waging war and selling weapons accross the globe ...

I think it ends when people realize humans are only 1 species of life. How is by education !

Russia doesn't need disappear for that.

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

Djmixxx wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:08 am
Trolls from Ukraine, where can I find the lists of those who died on the island?
Again, an awkward question to ignore. But everyone else, turn off the brain and believe the Ukrainian news, the most objective news on the planet.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Djmixxx wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 12:59 pm
Djmixxx wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:08 am
Trolls from Ukraine, where can I find the lists of those who died on the island?
Again, an awkward question to ignore. But everyone else, turn off the brain and believe the Ukrainian news, the most objective news on the planet.
djmix crew explaining whats wrong with Ukraine

https://9gag.com/gag/aog43rx
Dont believe this shit that russians are against war. The same 80% that support putin support crazy shit like this interview.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by PacifyerGrey »

I’ve got one key word for today.
Bucha.
This will never be forgotten. Those guilty will be found and executed. And russia will not wash away it’s sins.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

enterisys wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:13 pm
Dont believe this shit that russians are against war. The same 80% that support putin support crazy shit like this interview.
When there is nothing to say, but you need to make a smart look.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Djmixxx wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:58 pm
enterisys wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:13 pm
Dont believe this shit that russians are against war. The same 80% that support putin support crazy shit like this interview.
When there is nothing to say, but you need to make a smart look.
Youre god damn right there is nothing to say. Video explains it better than I do.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

PacifyerGrey wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:07 pm
I’ve got one key word for today.
Bucha.
This will never be forgotten. Those guilty will be found and executed. And russia will not wash away it’s sins.
No worry, for a few more months they will find victims among the civilians of the Bucha, who were so stupid that they collaborated with the Russian troops.

Ukrainian Nazis have a very short conversation with traitors, and it is very convenient to blame Russia.:

Volodymyr Struk

On 2 March 2022 Struk was kidnapped from his home and later found dead of a gunshot to the heart. This has been reported as a response to his pro-Russia separatist activities during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.

In response Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs, wrote in a post on Telegram "There is one less traitor in Ukraine. The mayor of Kremenna in Luhansk region, former deputy of Luhansk parliament was found killed".

Denis Kireev

One of the negotiators from the Ukrainian side, Denis Kireev, was killed during detention by SBU officers.

According to Ukrainian media sources, the murder of Denis Kireev took place near the building of the Pechersk Court in Kyiv.

Kireev is a banking expert, worked with Citibank, Credit Lyonnais, ING, Rabobank. He worked in Ukrainian banks - Oschadbank and Ukreximbank, managed two investment funds. In Ukraine, he was suspected of treason.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

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