We support Ukraine

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mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:06 pm
If you don't know about cars, you'll still buy crap. but from the seller that you like best. And so you are now choosing a source of information that tells the "truth" the way you like it.
That is a way to refute one person the poossibility to inform itself as soon as one entity try to do propaganda. That's not true, that's higly overestimating the power of fake news in a connected society.

You are arguing on the example but not on the topic itself, your refutation doesn't make sense if someone tells you the earth is flat, another one the earth is a sphere, then you can only listen to the people you prefer ? No it's wrong, it's not about choosing your own truth, it's not about choosing your favourite seller, that is the same as saying a car is good because many people buy it. There are better car according to measurement, there are factual evidence of civilian targeting, of launching a war, on refusing to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine by the russian federation.

Although you can choose to dismiss factual evidence to preserve the illusion/narrative you decided to choose, it doesn't mean you have to.
Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:06 pm
mmmPI wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:23 pm
not look like a total barbarian.
Funny. You are either a barbarian or you are not a barbarian.
You can't be a little gay. Your are gay or not gay. So your reasoning is wrong.
Thank you i'm not expert on gay things but i'm pretty sure you can change overtime, like barbarians. I trust you on that though. What i meant is that in order to justify an aggression you prepare a narrative that you will write as history if you win. As you may know the famous " history is written by the winners'" or something like that. Now when you launch an invasion you need your motives to be rationnal and to exalt positive value to write in your history. That's what i meant by not look like a total barbarian. It's a idiomatic expression that may have poorly translated.

It doesn't mean the story is true. That's when you need to censor the press , to control historians , to forbid people to express their opinions and so on. All of which are happening now in russia in order to keep the public opinion in favor of the war that the russian federation launched. As soon as the narrative about the "just" war vanishes, the absurdity of the war would leave room for peace.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:16 pm
The resolution was supported by representatives of 141 countries, representatives of 35 countries abstained, representatives of 5 countries voted against.

unequivocally-?
that's more than 77%, which is more than Putin's last score at his own election


maybe the correct term is overwhelmingly ? that is obviously a sujective choice of terms

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:09 pm
You can learn to analyse the information too, it's a difficult job and people make mistakes, yet it yields positive results if done properly.
If a person swims in a sea of ​​shit, then no matter how much he analyzes, for him it will be a sea of ​​water. because there is no reference point. In our case, the reference point is in Ukraine.

If you and I are not there on the scene, then we analyze only what we are allowed to see.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:22 pm
Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:16 pm
The resolution was supported by representatives of 141 countries, representatives of 35 countries abstained, representatives of 5 countries voted against.

unequivocally-?
that's more than 77%, which is more than Putin's last score at his own election


maybe the correct term is overwhelmingly ? that is obviously a sujective choice of terms
If we talk about the conditional "weight" of countries that refused to condemn Russia , then this is a large part of our planet both in terms of population and economic potential.

this game can be played for a long time.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:24 pm
If a person swims in a sea of ​​shit, then no matter how much he analyzes, for him it will be a sea of ​​water. because there is no reference point. In our case, the reference point is in Ukraine.
If you and I are not there on the scene, then we analyze only what we are allowed to see.
Maybe it's true for a person, but one doesn't have to stay alone, https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/03 ... n-ukraine/

This is collaborative effort, only "verified" facts are published, this means people try to communicate with primary sources, aka original poster on telegram for example, to receive the original file, then it's analyzed by several person that doesn't share common interest = independant. This is how you can tell what is shit and what isn't. Some images even from official sources are "debunked"

You also have things like wikileaks and other entities that leak datas which are available for everyone to pick from to confirm/infirm analysis and narratives.

You and I alone can't make planes or rocket or satellites, yet they fly. Don't you trust science ? collaborative intelligence is powerful it made the world in which we live !

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:27 pm
If we talk about the conditional "weight" of countries that refused to condemn Russia , then this is a large part of our planet both in terms of population and economic potential.

this game can be played for a long time.
this is no game, i agree with you on that point, the demographic weight is for abstention. International institution are not really democratic. But it's a compromise that hopefully can be improved to prevent situations like the current one to happen again. And prevent worse situation, or the current one to escalate.

Had the resolution been only for peace maybe it would have been successful. Edit : I mean demographically, because 141 / 181 is still a success for the side who proposed the resolution.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:21 pm
There are better car according to measurement, there are factual evidence of civilian targeting, of launching a war, on refusing to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine by the russian federation.
factual evidence - this is what you are allowed to see as long as you are not at the scene in person

And in general every time in shock when someone claims their rights to the land. There was a large country of Yugoslavia, which was cut down and no one appeared. So let's not be on the integrity of the country, this value is not constant, very changeable
mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:21 pm
As you may know the famous " history is written by the winners'" or something like that.
Now it is sound like : " history is written by the strongest "
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:35 pm

Had the resolution been only for peace maybe it would have been successful. Edit : I mean demographically, because 141 / 181 is still a success for the side who proposed the resolution.
I'm probably far from politics, but what does this resolution affect?
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:40 pm
factual evidence - this is what you are allowed to see as long as you are not at the scene in person

And in general every time in shock when someone claims their rights to the land. There was a large country of Yugoslavia, which was cut down and no one appeared. So let's not be on the integrity of the country, this value is not constant, very changeable
No and for 2 reasons.

1) Yugoslavia happened years ago in a different world

2) current world allow random people to publish video available to millions before censorship can occur, you can verify it yourself when you publish something.
Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:40 pm
mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:21 pm
As you may know the famous " history is written by the winners'" or something like that.
Now it is sound like : " history is written by the strongest "
Yes this is what i mean, true for yugoslavia, but not for iraq , things have changed

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

for example, the text from the Ukrainian channel:

Invaders destroyed Azovstal plant in Mariupol - Deputy Mayor

"Nothing works. Everything is worth it. It's impossible to start it all. Azovstal was bombed. Fully. There were a lot of air raids on Azovstal,” said Sergey Orlov.

Apparently, the Russian Federation wants to destroy the entire infrastructure in Ukraine


sounds like the truth

text from the Russian channel:

Powerful blows are delivered by units of the Russian Armed Forces on the fortified positions of the Azov national battalion (banned in the Russian Federation) on the territory of the Azovstal plant in Mariupol.

the truth in both posts, only in the first for some reason not the whole truth. I did the analysis. and it sounds logical to make a fortified defense on a large territory of the plant with underground communications. But why does the Ukrainian side not write about it? Or did I analyze it wrong?

Or as I was recently accused here, such news from Ukraine side will expose the situation not so beautifully?
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:52 pm
Or as I was recently accused here, such news from Ukraine side will expose the situation not so beautifully?
Those are what would be called "primary sources" or "secondary sources" then you are a "tertiary sources". All of which are not independant or third party of the conflict, therefore what they say is not to be considered as the truth, but their explanations. There is no way to know the "truth" when someone first mention a fact, like a scoop, it's only afterward that the verification can happen in journalism. It's not the same in military because you need to take decision while in journalism no, you can say you not sure, you don't know yet.

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:45 pm
Yes this is what i mean, true for yugoslavia, but not for iraq , things have changed
Unfortunately, nothing has changed at the level of relations between states.
You can easily compare the amount of sanctions to the participants of both military operations.
I can easily condemn the main fighter of the school, but no one will go to fight him.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:57 pm
you said that it is necessary to analyze. is my analyze of the two posts not correct?
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:57 pm
Unfortunately, nothing has changed at the level of relations between states.
You can easily compare the amount of sanctions to the participants of both military operations.
I can easily condemn the main fighter of the school, but no one will go to fight him.
when i was a kid i thought NATO was the army of the UN to make countries respect the laws, then i learned my country would have been in trouble, because it fought dirty war condemn by UN, then i realized war sucks, all war

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:59 pm
you said that it is necessary to analyze. is my analyze of the two posts not correct?
well no, you can't tell what happened, what would a journalist do, is first ask someone else than the 2 sources if the building mentionned is destroyed. Possibly send someone over there, or try to call the local authority like mayor, fireman, police, director of the plant. Or look at images from satelittes, things like that.

Then it would require finding witness, possibly pieces of items like ammo left on the ground to identify the fighters, maybe pictures on social network can be authentified from that area at the correct time. Part of it become military intelligence. Some journalist are "embedded" so they receive first hand intel from the military, but sometimes they are given fake news to intoxicate the other side.

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by gGeorg »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:09 pm
You can learn to analyse the information too, it's a difficult job and people make mistakes, yet it yields positive results if done properly. Discarding non-prooven fact and allegations. Crossing datas from independant sources.

Here is an example of a team doing it : https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/ho ... nformation
It is second time you try to spread propaganda made by NGO which is funded by CIA.
Previously yo tryed to push spoiled organization Reporters without borders, so gave you a link with funding of "independed" organization, then you immediately pulled another smoke screen "independent" company.

Well, make same, lets fallow money.
https://www.bellingcat.com/
has public finantial statement
https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/ ... -2020p.pdf
which is consist of curious lines like
"Income from other non-profit organizations" which one line without any other detail makes more than half of budget.
They also says: "Bellingcat can solicit or
accept contributions from international or intergovernmental institutions such as the European Commission"
Whiich is LOL.
Another funny moment you get on page 37 of key partners, when you see a company logo of NED which is CIA branch.

I dont know if you are a profesional-agent or an average brainwashed European, but stop confuse other people, ok ?
Last edited by gGeorg on Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:06 pm
well no, you can't tell what happened, what would a journalist do, is first ask someone else than the 2 sources if the building mentionned is destroyed. Possibly send someone over there, or try to call the local authority like mayor, fireman, police, director of the plant. Or look at images from satelittes, things like that.
a frame from the video and the approximate location of the person who filmed.

Azov steel is bombed. But what's the purpose, there are two versions of events.
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I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

gGeorg wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:11 pm
mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:09 pm
You can learn to analyse the information too, it's a difficult job and people make mistakes, yet it yields positive results if done properly. Discarding non-prooven fact and allegations. Crossing datas from independant sources.

Here is an example of a team doing it : https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/ho ... nformation
It is second time you try to spread propaganda made by NGO which is funded by CIA.
Previously I gave you a link with funding of "independed" organization, then you immediately pulled another smoke screen "independent" company.

Well, lets fallow money.
https://www.bellingcat.com/
has public finantial statement
https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/ ... -2020p.pdf
which is consist of curious lines like
"Income from other non-profit organizations" which one line without any other detail makes more than half of budget.
They also says: "Bellingcat can solicit or
accept contributions from international or intergovernmental institutions such as the European Commission"
Whiich is LOL.
Another funny moment you get on page 37 when you see a company logo of NED which is CIA branch.

I dont know if you are a profesional-agent or an average brainwashed European, but stop confuse other people, ok ?

If the CIA says the earth is round, it means the earth is flat ?

The informations are also on the website of the Word Health Organization

The funding is public that wouldn't be very smart of the CIA to publicly fund their propaganda organ they have plenty hidden money for that no ?

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Djmixxx wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:16 pm
Azov steel is bombed. But what's the purpose, there are two versions of events.
That is for me something i heard on a video game forum by a random person, that is the amount of information i have now that you published pictures. which is very little as you may imagine

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by gGeorg »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:17 pm

The informations are also on the website of the Word Health Organization
:P :P :P :P :P :P
You are definitely pro-joker.
Make your homework, and check who pay/own WHO.

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