Friday Facts #393 - Putting things on top of other things

[mmmPI]

Enclosed Belts:
As I've thought more and more about this the less I like it, I will still include it though (this took ages), maybe it will inspire some other ideas.

I really like the idea, it clicked in my mind when first hearing about the space platform, that you know item in space wouldn't stick to the belt, so it would need to be enclose, but that risk being just pipe. I like your drawing, it is not just pipe, although there existed pneumatic tube system which were really just pipes for items, i think you managed to still make it look like clearly an enclosed belt.

Although now seeing your drawing, i realize the main drawback (to me) would be that it doesn't convey the idea for inserter picking things from and putting things down on them. Hiding items while being a problem if there is mixed item, is already there when you use lots of underground belts, you can't see where the contamination is spreading/has spread, so i'm not considering it too much of a problem. But such (nice) drawing, seem like an "upgraded" version of the belt, like their space counter-part, which would require some special insertion and extraction point, instead of being wide open for pick up all along.

That feels like taking a string, and pulling on it and you never know when it's going to end, because to me that's a whole new system which i think would be fun to play with but is no longer the same as a belt, it is certainly inspiring !

[Koub]

I wonder how 5 filters will be displayed on inserters in alt-mode.

[Silari]

I wonder how 5 filters will be displayed on inserters in alt-mode.

Presumably exactly the same way filter inserters already do it. They have 5.

[ryanalpasta]

"Has vivid flashback to my friend making a super long belt to transport satelites to the rocket silo, effectively making a 1000 satelite buffer"

I am excited to accidentally make 10000 speed modules and have them get backed up on a stacked belt
In all seriousness this is amazing and saves some tedious belt mechanics like 4-lane busses. Love the idea of similifying throughput. I've always wanted to get to use more material, sometimes in the base game it feels like you really don't need much total ore to get to the next science, you set something up and then really never limit test it cause you don't need crazy spm to beat anything. This makes me think some late game stuff will use enormous amounts of mats, which I love (especially if it's not just "this takes 10000 iron", but "make __ into __ into __ into the thing, total iron is 10000")

[Junorus]

The more I think about it the more I like idea of bulk inserter. New new possibilities, new challenges.
But I dislike new belt. I have a lot of hours with krastorio 2 and space exploration so idea of faster belts is known to me. The problem is it is just another entity that just replaces previous one. And with not too much benefit, 33% more throughput is not worth wasting inventory space.

If you think we need it maybe let's do it differently? Would quality influence belt speed? As like legendary belt being like higher tier belt? Legendary yellow belt having 30items/s and underground 6 like red one. Then legendary blue belt would be 60 and 8 reach, like this new one, but without new entity.

This would leave the graphical issue but maybe it can just be overlooked.

And the idea about enclosed belts... If we would have enclosed belt then we would need stations for loading, unloading. Maybe a capsules in tubes in a system that goes to target location... And what is difference of that from trains?

[Fedozzz]

For blue and green conveyors, please add bumpers at the bends, and for green ones - along the entire length. I just can’t imagine that at such speeds something simply won’t fly off.
For the topic of stacks on the belt: a stack of ore looks strange. Is it possible to change the picture to some kind of pile?
Is it possible to add the ability for objects on conveyors to rotate along with the rotation of the belt?

Translated via Google. If there are any inaccuracies, sorry, my knowledge of English is not enough to make corrections. Sorry.

[DeadMG]

The idea of the bulk inserters seems quite nice, but I'd like to just suggest that loaders should also optionally be able to output stacks.

[Anima117]

I am fairly excited for this whole thing to drop. All the features have been making me earger to get my hands on it.

Now to the topic at hand, I am not bothered by any of the features proposed, asside from some slight graphical issues (In particular the stacks being visible by the end of the underground belt's entrance, but that will undobutedly be fixed by release). To give my opinion on what people said already :

- I think the bulk inserter will be a cool tool for more compact factories as it will up the throughoutput of whichever line you are using.
I've noticed some people dislike that the inserter waits for a full stack before releasing it, but I think it shouldn't be any different way, otherwise there would be no point in using these (Or you could as some suggested, allow any inseter to stack up items, but then it becomes a bit broken in my opinion). Some people also think it will make the stack inserter redundant, I think instead it will make it do its job faster as it will grab more items in a shorter time span (especially once you reach the +12, it would be achieved in one belt with the 16 items stacked up, they will combo each other instead of play against each other. Just the names should probably be switched as everyone said).

- The removal of the filter inserters is cool, I don't think they are that useful, unless you're doing a sushi-belt (which you shouldn't do anyway as it is technically a risk of clogging your machines if you do it badly, and you lock yourself into using only filter inserters), so seeing them get repurposed for a more useful job is nice. In fact, since you freed up white and purple, and Bulk inserters are the white ones, what will become of the purple one? Maybe a fast-long-inserter? (One can only dream )

- On the topic of the faster green belt, while I do think the speed is a tiny bit off-putting from the video, I also think that it isn't that big of an issue for the following reason :
Unless you are making a gigantic base with a lot of throughoutput, you are very much unlikely to actually need use these over the rest. It is cool for an upgrade to the main bus, but most likely isn't going to replace every belts in your base, just like you aren't replacing all belts with tier 3 if the throughoutput isn't required, I believe both these belts, and the bulk inserter are mainly here to increase throughoutput that may be required for larger bases, but not really a necessity, kinda like how quality is useful, but not a requirement.
I also do not think that they will replace trains because I believe these unlocks will be significantly late enough that you don't need to replace trains, or that their cost, compared to the cost of railway at least, will make them harder to mass-produce (but once you can mass-produce them, probably would be more useful to switch to faster belts with stacks for maximum throughoutput on whichever area requires it).

All in all, I am quite excited to play with these.

[aka13]

I never use any belts except top unlocked tier, and have auto-recycling foreverything else. Does not make sense to produce additional clutter.

[mmmPI]

And the idea about enclosed belts... If we would have enclosed belt then we would need stations for loading, unloading. Maybe a capsules in tubes in a system that goes to target location... And what is difference of that from trains?

If the capsules tubes goes into a target location, then yes it's a train. If the capsules are just moved by the tile on which they stand, then that's like a container system ( barrels or modded boxes). The loading and unloading station may not even be an entity, it could just be visually different when the enclosed belt is placed next to an inserter or has an inserter targeting it. It could function just like a regular belt not even barrel or train. It's not a mechanic used much in factorio though, maybe like corner belts which automatically adapt to their location when placed, i could never imagine one time it would not realign itself properly, that's seem so impossible in factorio, i imagine it could be just plop a regular enclosed belt, and it looks different because there would be a little hole like in robot chest for inserter to pick things up or place things down. I don't know about the design choice though, there is no "alternative" visual for entity that are not decorative in factorio if it's the same thing, it look the same that may break a rule.

Another thing that i had in mind is the mod https://mods.factorio.com/mod/FluidMustFlow , it adds large pipes that are as wide as train rails, and you need station for loading and unloading with regular pipes, when playing it's like having highways and regular road and routing things, it's almost the same, but it's different enough that it creates interactions and designs choices for organising the connections and choosing what transit through each. If there was some sort of enclosed belt, there could also be(2x2) in size like rails, maybe this kind of thing belong more to mods, you would only have 2 lanes, but it wouldn't be just an item on each side but a box or a stack or a pile, things that couldn't fit in regular belt, so you'd have transfer station like load and unload but more packing - unpacking. Items wouldn't need to go as fast visually it could be covered with glass, because it could be 50 ora stack of them in a single box and the stations would have 1 stack capacity buffer or something like a chest connected to a loader.

And if its an enclosed belt as title of thread suggest , it makes it easier to put things on top of it. Like drawing the visual for the inserter of that do the transfer /unpacking station so it is partially attached to the enclosed belt ,and taking things from it, and putting them aside, similar to a crane motion or some sort of splitter attached from above like those where you put a coin to try and grab a toy.

The visual is inspiring i think, but yeah, it could end up just being like a train the way it function and is used, i was more worried about it being too similar to pipes now i'm reconsidering

[Slayn25]

Love it all. Great job devs! Now I'm hoping you'll give the filter inserter treatment to logistics chests. Clear up that inventory!

[Shadow_Man]

Enclosed Belts:

Great idea for Space belts (items will not fly from it).
Earendel, come and get it!

[nethus]

Having blue belts with 45 items/s always seemed a little strange: where a red belt has double the capacity of a yellow, a blue belt only adds 50% more. Splitting a blue belt in half results in 2 uncompressed red belts. So with that in mind I'm certainly not opposed to a new tier of belts that can do 60 items/s. And having them certainly won't keep me from using trains.
For the bulk inserters: as pointed out in earlier posts: it's indeed confusing to have bulk inserters that stack, and stack inserters that don't stack. I wouldn't mind if those names were changed.

[TheRaph]

Hi.
Is there any chance to get long-handed stack inserters?

[apriori]

Enclosed Belts:

Great idea for Space belts (items will not fly from it).
Earendel, come and get it!

How should inserters take/put items when a belt is enclosed?

[Qon]

Enclosed Belts:

Great idea for Space belts (items will not fly from it).
Earendel, come and get it!

How should inserters take/put items when a belt is enclosed?

Exactly like they interact with belts now, why not? The hands phase right through the walls of assemblers but you aren't worrying about that. It's a non-issue.

[apriori]

Exactly like they interact with belts now, why not? The hands phase right through the walls of assemblers but you aren't worrying about that. It's a non-issue.

Ok, let's say. =)
But then how to evaluate the compression, content and proper sides of belt? Do I have copper cables, are these copper cables (or iron plates), do I have enough of them, and on which side of belt they are?

[Unknow0059]

This is cool, but someone bothered to add colors to items in belts so their movement is easier to see, but no one stopped the belts from animating for stopped belts?

One of those is harder to do than the other.

[sparr]

This is cool, but someone bothered to add colors to items in belts so their movement is easier to see, but no one stopped the belts from animating for stopped belts?

My kingdom for a way to detect when a belt is stopped!

[Dr.Jay]

Another very promising looking change!

Just one remark regarding the picture of the "Full stacked fastest belts": For me, it does not look like they are moving. It looks more like some flickering of hot desert air ...