Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

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Avezo
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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Avezo » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:30 pm

5thHorseman wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:23 pm
Avezo wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:08 pm
So, during playtesting no issues were observed with much harder progressing into blue science?
I haven't tried the mod that changes the recipes for 0.16, but is 1 solid fuel and 0.5 advanced circuits really that "much harder" than 1 electric mining drill?
It is - it requires even more setting up of 'refinery' part of the factory, whereas old mining drills required just setting up more mining outposts. And you have to set up almost entire 'refinery' part from scratch at once for just blue science, whereas previously you'd be setting mining outposts gradually.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by AndrolGenhald » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:32 pm

I'm guessing you're probably already aware, but https://stable.wiki.factorio.com/ gives a certificate error because it's using a wildcard cert for *.factorio.com.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by TheRaph » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:35 pm

pleegwat wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:28 pm
They never promised week of the 25th either. If it's not out by Wednesday, it will probably slip to the week of the 4th of March.
You are a little bit wrong.
They stated in FFF 282:
If the playtesting goes well, we will let you know next Friday, and if it is the case, we will aim to release the week starting 25th February.
So yes, there is an "if" but it is kind of a promise to say "if all goes well" or "if nothing goes wrong" we will do this or that.

And I think they don't promise things they don't believe in.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Philip017 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:44 pm

I really hope that the new fluid algorithm will be included in one of the subversion's of 17, and that all that work is not disregarded because of the issues that were found. hope you are able to find a solution that works.

regarding the pollution dissipation rate. it took several maps to figure out what this did and tweak it to a working level i was both happy with and wasn't profoundly OP. pollution is an issue with server performance and I adjusted this value to allow for pollution to still be present, but unless you had a large base with modules, the pollution cloud would shrink out of existence before leaving a centered radar's scanning range. this minimized attacks and reduced server load for those that never bothered to explore around their bases. and alleviated early game attacks due to pollution problems with a lot of burners, especially with those that join late and would be murdered before being able to establish a solid base. but the inability to have it make the game significantly harder was lacking and it took a lot of trial and error to get a good working solution. the death world scenario now will definitely make the game more challenging for those that absolutely want to test the murdering value of the locals.

regarding spawner pollution hoarding, i guess that means that the blinking away of the pollution on the map indicating the presence of a new base will be minimized and we shall see larger/more frequent attacks. possibly make the cost of biter production higher if this is a concern.

the new logistics chests have a bit too much contrast imo. but i guess ill see what they look like in game, but i think the solid colors make them easier to distinguish.

thanks again for all the work

also release in a Monday would fit best for them as they would have all week to fix bugs found by the community, instead of working through the weekend because of all the reports. not that they haven't done so in the past as these devs are by far the best ones i have seen in all the games ive played. despite the IF on the 25th, the find of the fluid algorithm problems could push them to march 4th, or beyond. and i know a lot of people are eager to get their hands on 17, but i would be happy for them to push another week if they can fix the issues before releasing a version that will cause heartache for so many of their fans.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by <NO_NAME> » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:46 pm

Hype train has no brakes!
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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Grynet » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:53 pm

Looks great! I have one question though, will the pipes and tankers assigned to one type of content be unassigned once it completely runs out of contents? I want to be able to change the type of oil used for flamethrower turrets without tearing down all the pipes and rebuilding them, especially when shipping them by train.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Omnifarious » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:01 pm

posila wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:22 pm
It would be very unwise to assume it's gonna be on Monday. The thing is, we are not sitting on a thing that is ready to release, and will release it as soon as it seems to be in good enough state, so it is impossible to say exact day. It definitelly won't be on Friday, hopefully not Thursday, hopefully some day before Thursday.
I love your honesty. A lot of people let their eagerness get the better of them in various ways. I've been telling people since you guys first decided to drive hard towards a release that it wouldn't be until early March, no matter what was originally said. :-) I'm glad to be proven at least slightly wrong. :-)

Software development is hard, and not a very deterministic process, even if software itself is.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by barnaclebob » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:15 pm

I like the new stuff coming and cant wait. The only thing that threw me off was that the rocket in the silo has no visual place in it for a payload and it looks weird.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by <NO_NAME> » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:21 pm

When the rocket is inside the silo, it is very brightly lighten in comparison to the interior of the silo. Moreover, silo doors don't cast a shadow.
These two things combined destroy the impression that the rocket is really inside.
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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Cyclonut » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:36 pm

Speaking of silo improvements, I like the idea of needing several buildings to establish a launch site, requiring prerequisites. You could use what goes into making a silo as these different, adjoining buildings, which will stay after you build them, and use the existing resources as their icons, or make new ones like central command, garage/assembly building, powerhouse, etc. Also, not all entities can have their progress displayed, one has to open the silo to see at what percentage you are at. It would be good to have a connection point where you can connect your arithmetic combinator or whatever to read out that percentage. Ohters include train contents percentage, which will be visible in the GUI that I read. Then, I could put an alarm/horn and make sounds at 90, 95, 98, 99% so I would not miss the launch. So all entities even factories to have status/count port. :idea:

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Zavian » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:41 pm

TheRaph wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:35 pm
If the playtesting goes well, we will let you know next Friday, and if it is the case, we will aim to release the week starting 25th February.
So yes, there is an "if" but it is kind of a promise to say "if all goes well" or "if nothing goes wrong" we will do this or that.

And I think they don't promise things they don't believe in.
You are still ignoring the "aim" bit. Whilst you could construe that statement as a promise that "if testing goes well" they "aim to release the week starting 25th February", they are not promising to achieve that target, even if testing has gone well.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by luc » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:04 am

posila wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:22 pm
Davolution wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:11 pm
Can I assume that next Monday, the 25th would be the release of 0.17?
It would be very unwise to assume it's gonna be on Monday. The thing is, we are not sitting on a thing that is ready to release, and will release it as soon as it seems to be in good enough state, so it is impossible to say exact day. It definitelly won't be on Friday, hopefully not Thursday, hopefully some day before Thursday.
Thanks! This is the information I was looking for :)

Unfortunately that means no LAN party with friends coming over from Argentina (we're in Germany), they'll not be here anymore if it's released after Monday... but good to know to plan activities :)

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by 5thHorseman » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:11 am

TheRaph wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:35 pm
If the playtesting goes well, we will let you know next Friday, and if it is the case, we will aim to release the week starting 25th February.
So yes, there is an "if" but it is kind of a promise to say "if all goes well" or "if nothing goes wrong" we will do this or that.
It's not a promise. It's not even kind of a promise. If something doesn't go well and they don't release, they didn't break a promise.

Unless you mean they promised that they will release it next week if there are no problems then sure. They promised that they aim for that. I also promise that really tried hard to get to work on time even though I didn't quite make it.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by TheRaph » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:39 am

5thHorseman wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:11 am
Unless you mean they promised that they will release it next week if there are no problems then sure.
That's exactly what I tried to say.

BTW: I also promised that I try to get to work on time. And there are only less than 3 days a year where I miss the goal. So I think we may have a good chance to get 0.17 next week.

That I may misunderstood the devs could be caused by my orign.
I'm not good in English. But in my orign culture the sentences "I promise you that I will do that" and "I promise you that I will do that, if nothing serious goes wrong" means exactly the same. Because a promise could ever been broken by something horrible which is not under someones control. Like canceled flights, electric dropouts, big mistakes, serious illness or the own death.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Azzinoth » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:41 am

Mathematician wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:05 pm
Also, I actually expected the lights being still and only flash when silo is opened and the rocket raised. Those are in fact just 'notification lights', not 'light up the silo lights'. As I see them: they flash as an indication of something important happenning.
They are warning flashes that the door is about to open, in case someone is standing there. Thats why they stop flashing as soon as the door actually starts opening.

Shingen wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:30 pm
oh, the conversation about enemy spawners/bases reminded me of this annoying issue in Factorio with destroying them: the biters respawn WAY to quickly imo.
Thats a problem i had with the biters since the beginning. They respawn so fast that you have do destroy the nests before the biters. That feels odd, because you would naturally think that aliens chasing you are a greater threat than their static nests, so you would want to kill them first and then destroy their nests when its safe.
Maybe we could make the biter a bit tougher so that you have a nice fight and then make them respawn much slower?

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by ili » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:28 am

Rseding91 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:46 pm
Cyclonut wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:34 pm
What, not released today, but you promised last week. I even left work early to see the new 0.17 relase!
No we didn't. Where are you reading that?
What, not released today? I just thrown my ID card on my boss desk and told him I quit so I can play!

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by CDarklock » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:05 am

Shingen wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:30 pm
currently, the only effective method of destroying a base that i found is to jump in the middle of it, preferably in a tank, destroy the spawners, and only then take care about the biters that are following you.
I throw five each of personal laser defence and energy shields in my inventory, then kite the perimetre in a spiral pattern until the bases are eliminated.

In the earlier game, I make heavy use of grenades, but do the same basic thing: run around the outside, chucking grenades closer and closer to the middle as I can.

Since you mentioned it, I decided to try running into the middle of a base. It works about as well, except I take a lot more damage. With all those shields, however, I can still just wade into the middle and tank the base.

I don't really enjoy the alien-killing parts of the game, myself. I prefer to just build my base, but if I turn off the aliens in some way - whether by setting peaceful mode, or turning off pollution, or turning off evolution, or reducing parameters - it feels like cheating. There's a point in the early game where aliens are a threat that can destroy my base, and then later they become a nuisance that makes me repair walls and reload turrets constantly, and then I just start wiping them out in an ever-widening spiral for no good reason.

At no point do I say or think "man, it sure is fun having these in the game." They're like living in an apartment where everyone else in the building has roaches, so you do, too. At first it's an infestation, and then it's a nuisance, and then you just occasionally get these little reminders that everyone else in the building is a nasty filthy pig who can't or won't get rid of them.

But looking at the game, I kind of feel like that's what they're meant to be. A threat that becomes a nuisance that becomes a chore. And I am a little worried that the new changes are going to make them a bigger threat for a longer period, to the point that playing the game becomes frustrating to me. I'm also worried that because we have so much flexibility in configuring a new game, the default settings will be tailored to the average hardcore veteran with thousands of hours in-game and an active presence in the community, instead of the actual average player.

But, you know, thus far the devs have done a pretty fantastic job. So I'll just cross my fingers and hold my breath and trust them to make good decisions.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by starxplor » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:15 am

Please make the red and blue belts slow down the biters a bit more. I understand needing them to be able to overcome blue belts to prevent entirely breaking them, but I think the speed penalty rate should be the same as for players. (This way, they would still catch up to a player running against a belt as they would on the ground)

After all, ever try walking up a down-escalator? And that is just the 'yellow belt' speed, ha!

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by V453000 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:46 am

Avezo wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:30 pm
5thHorseman wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:23 pm
Avezo wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:08 pm
So, during playtesting no issues were observed with much harder progressing into blue science?
I haven't tried the mod that changes the recipes for 0.16, but is 1 solid fuel and 0.5 advanced circuits really that "much harder" than 1 electric mining drill?
It is - it requires even more setting up of 'refinery' part of the factory, whereas old mining drills required just setting up more mining outposts. And you have to set up almost entire 'refinery' part from scratch at once for just blue science, whereas previously you'd be setting mining outposts gradually.
You can just make solid fuel from light oil. There is no other product that you could make from light oil, and cracking is unlocked later. Typically light oil is the one that usually deadlocks soonest without cracking as it is somewhat likely you will consume heavy for lubricant... So you are not making any extra refinery than you would need for the petroleum gas, you are just using light oil and delaying the deadlock.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Drury » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:13 am

That's a shame about the new fluid system, I got really excited about that.

Still though I'm hype. I wonder what direction you're taking the campaign, that ought to be a ride.
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