IR in 0.18

[Repairmanski]

I want to ask you about it, but there is no simple way to do it. Personal messages, forum topic and mod discussions are closed.

I was in the same boat. I'm no mega factorio modder but I would have been happy to help with maintenance and community interaction. My day job is custom-modified software/scripting with a healthy serving of maintenance and customer service already.

I would have been happy to throw my hat in the ring to help but there was no one to ask.

LFG - Tank/Cleric

[tiriscef]

Less than a fortnight, and already the buzzards are circling the carrion. I wish all this shit-stirring would stay confined to Reddit and Discord where it belongs.

I'm sure I will regret asking this, but I can't help me.
Why are you always so angry?

The people love your mod and don't want to see it abandoned in a past version of factorio. And you're here comparing them to scavengers. You're simultaneously signaling 'come here' and 'go away'.

I thought about maintaining your mod, but I didn't dare to ask.
Well, I studied a bit of computer science and am maintaining a mod. So I'm sure I can do it.
There are just two things I would like to change about IR: I would re-add the non-english locales and I would try to move the tech-tree-overhaul to data-updates to improve compatibility with other mods.

[ZombieMooose]

I'm sure I will regret asking this, but I can't help me.
Why are you always so angry?

Discordians gonna discord.

[ukezi]

Less than a fortnight, and already the buzzards are circling the carrion.

Take it as a compliment. People care about it. We are talking about it because we want to keep playing with it.

[Deadlock989]

I deleted Discord and my gaming e-mail address, and also turned this forum's inbox off, because while it meant losing out on the useful/supportive interaction I was getting, it also got rid of all the tedious pestering, as well as the relatively small amount of literal hate-mail. So at the end of the day, it was a clear win for me, on balance.

I asked for the thread to be closed because I detest muck-raking and people digging up quotes.

I've thought all this bollocks over some more. The stable release of 0.17 was barely more than three months ago. There's nothing in 0.18.0 of immediate interest. So I'm not supporting experimental releases of Factorio. When there's a stable release of 0.18, whenever that is, I will decide then if I want to put any more of my time into updating the mod, depending on how much work that is (probably not very much) and what else I have going on.

Until such time as I say otherwise, it remains my work. It's not "abandoned" and the license holds. You are the consumers and licensees - or not. Remember: I made IR for me. If you also squeezed 10-20 extra hours of fun out of Factorio because of it, that's a bonus and I'm pleased for you. If not, then I believe the internet expression is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It's a finite thing. It's not going to last forever. It's not going to provide you with infinite fun. It's not a deal like Bob's which runs and mutates for years on end. It is what it is, take it or leave it.

As for discussing patches to IR to make it run under 0.18 experimental on this forum, of course there's nothing in the license that could possibly prevent it. In fact, you need look no further than lines 75-81 in the data.lua of Bilka's "IR Adjustments" mod version 0.0.7. Because no matter what the license says or what I might reasonably or unreasonably want to happen to my own mod, people will do as they damn well please anyway, I expect.

[Bilka]

In fact, you need look no further than lines 75-81 in the data.lua of Bilka's "IR Adjustments" mod version 0.0.7. Because no matter what the license says or what I might reasonably or unreasonably want to happen to my own mod, people will do as they damn well please anyway, I expect.

Congratulations to advertising what I purposely didn't advertise because the mod is just for debugging purposes now. I need a way to test 0.18 with mods and have it be easily reproducible by other devs, a "patch it" mod is perfect for that. In case it makes you happier, I'll have wont be able to fix the breakage that the character gui will bring in the same manner, my mod will be just as deprecated as your own then. I'm playing IR on 0.17 anyway, so it's not like I need to care.

[darkfrei]

Can you please just update it to 0.18 without any maintenance until the stable version?

[adamius]

Personally if I was at this stage, I'd delegate it to someone else and then go learn guitar for a month or two. Klonan has volunteered to do maintenance-only so you should seriously consider his offer. Others can likely deal with bugfixes under his guidance if necessary. This approach would mean everyone gets what they want: You get more time with guitar or whatever and everyone else knows what they can expect. They also know that feature suggestions/comments for improvements will be delayed until your enthusiasm returns.

I asked for the thread to be closed because I detest muck-raking and people digging up quotes. I've thought all this bollocks over some more.

Fair enough. It gets tiresome. People wonder why you might get angry but they don't realise what nonsense you've previously experienced. So, there is that.

As for discussing patches to IR to make it run under 0.18 experimental on this forum, of course there's nothing in the license that could possibly prevent it.

Except for the non-distribution part... which discourages people who like to try to stay in good with licenses. I'm revisiting my own use of licenses as I update them for 0.18. LGPL looks good for code. Separating your mod into code and media so others can fix your code when 0.18.4 (...?!) breaks everything due to some new GUI (?!) is probably a Good Idea.

In fact, you need look no further than lines 75-81 in the data.lua of Bilka's "IR Adjustments" mod version 0.0.7. Because no matter what the license says or what I might reasonably or unreasonably want to happen to my own mod, people will do as they damn well please anyway, I expect.

Don't make it such that good people who want to continue playing have to eventually break ethics to do so. The right thing should be rewarded and easy to follow. As modders we need to remember the lifespan of this stuff will likely exceed a decade regardless of whether we are involved. Best to make the maintenance straightforward.

[Crux Mason]

Deadlock - I just want to say Thanks for making a great mod. It wasn't a mere 20 extra hours I got out of factorio with it but 198 with it alone and another 217 in a Krastorio/IR game. Over 400 hours of enrichment because of the work you did so while I hope you update it and rebalance and continue with it, if you don't,well I got my goodie from it and moved on to other mods. Industrial Revolutions will always be a polished example of how to do modding well.

Also, I figured out how to belt the sulfur and recycle my water so the diluted acid was not the mystery of the universe to me.

[Vinnie_NL]

Hi Deadlock,
I just like to say IR was the first conversion mod I tried and it just hit the perfect spot for me. The reason to try it was mostly the art style of the new buildings which were fitting so well with the standard Factorio style, unlike the other overhaul mods I've seen so far. The start was a bit of challenge during the burner phase but it was a fun change from the standard experience. I understand your decision to step away from development of this mod if it seems you're not doing it right for all those people (aka the vocal minority) when you see the reply notifications pouring in. I only enjoyed the mod so far and it forced me to come with very different designs which were not needed in vanilla, and I think most players did.

If I look at the mod portal filtered on big mods for 0.17 I see IR on the 7th place with 106K downloads, which really is a lot (I did count the multiple 5DIM's as 1 mod to keep it fair). So you had quite some impact by creating the mod mostly by yourself, and also coding it in a way to keep compatibility with the mods I used. Of course you need to state that compatibility with other mods is not guaranteed and issues are expected with other big conversions, but for the majority who just wants to use QOL mods it works just fine.

I respect your current decision but this is my way to say thanks for creating Industrial Revolution and hope it compensates with the criticism that's sent in your direction before.

Update:
I just noticed IR is not listed as 'depreciated' anymore. As long as 0.18 is not stable yet, I'm not expecting any update, and even after that it is still on your judgement to update or not. But this alone makes me feel a little better already.

[shanemadden]

You get more time with guitar or whatever

Yikes. Sorry to call you out specifically on this but, a little bit yikes. The amount of expertise, passion, and dedication that's required to create something like this? Deadlock said he needs a break before he can decide whether he's willing to continue devoting the time that's needed - that doesn't deserve derision, it deserves understanding. Let's be understanding with each other, folks; it's a rough world out there.

[Deadlock989]

Yeah. I'd prefer the harp. As it is, I'm trying to put bread on the table while finishing a PhD and meanwhile the world is burning down, so, y'know, priorities ...

There will definitely be an 0.18 update for the mod. But only when I feel like it, and it certainly won' t be until 0.18 settles down and/or I've launched a rocket in ONI. I sketched out a couple of things for IR on the back of an envelope today.

Thanks for the messages of support. Sorry to those who have meant well and tried to be supportive and just got grumpiness or rudeness back in return.

Sadly I'm just done, permanently, with the opinions of randoms off the internet. When the mod updates, it'll be in a comfy vacuum with no "official" forum threads or discussion boards or insistent PMs telling me you prefer beans to peas or that I am disrespecting the content creator community of Kyrgyzstan with my license choices, because I simply can't handle that much attention. If the mod ends up worse because of that or you just hate what I've done, that's life, you got your money's worth.

[shanemadden]

Sadly I'm just done, permanently, with the opinions of randoms off the internet. When the mod updates, it'll be in a comfy vacuum with no "official" forum threads or discussion boards or insistent PMs telling me you prefer beans to peas or that I am disrespecting the content creator community of Kyrgyzstan with my license choices, because I simply can't handle that much attention. If the mod ends up worse because of that or you just hate what I've done, that's life, you got your money's worth.

That's a great approach. Wishing you the absolute best, and steam that doesn't condense on the way to that ONI rocket (keep those fuel pipes in vacuum ) 750 hrs and I still haven't fired a petrol rocket, one of these years..

[orzelek]

Sadly I'm just done, permanently, with the opinions of randoms off the internet. When the mod updates, it'll be in a comfy vacuum with no "official" forum threads or discussion boards or insistent PMs telling me you prefer beans to peas or that I am disrespecting the content creator community of Kyrgyzstan with my license choices, because I simply can't handle that much attention. If the mod ends up worse because of that or you just hate what I've done, that's life, you got your money's worth.

That's a great approach. Wishing you the absolute best, and steam that doesn't condense on the way to that ONI rocket (keep those fuel pipes in vacuum ) 750 hrs and I still haven't fired a petrol rocket, one of these years..

I gave up around liquid hydrogen/O2 fuels. Preventing pipes from being constantly damaged by cold stuff have proven to be annoying. Or I'm missing some game mechanic that allows for efficient precooling of pipes that won't take months (in game time).

[adamius]

You get more time with guitar or whatever

Yikes. Sorry to call you out specifically on this but, a little bit yikes. The amount of expertise, passion, and dedication that's required to create something like this? Deadlock said he needs a break before he can decide whether he's willing to continue devoting the time that's needed - that doesn't deserve derision, it deserves understanding. Let's be understanding with each other, folks; it's a rough world out there.

No derision was implied. You brought that. Its not my place to ask what he needs to attend to. That's why I kept it light with "guitar or whatever". You saw that as derision. No. None intended. People get busy and need to do other things. I haven't done anything myself code-wise because I'm busy too. I simply suggest he hand maintenance to someone else. And burn out is a real thing. I really get it. And the need to take a break.

Life is like that.

[draeath]

while finishing a PhD

Yikes, I think this is all you would have needed to say. While I don't have one (or plans to get one) every PhD I know has expressed the process is much like a walk through Hell with ill fitting shoes.

Hang in there.

[Mecejide]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/IndustrialRevolutionV18

[Adamo]

edit: nevermind, I'm an idiot and missed half this thread, where you already responded, Deadlock. Good luck with your degree. PhD programs can be such a great way to spend your time not feeling valued.

Based on my few interactions with Deadlock, I am confident that if he ultimately decides to abandon his project, he'll let us know and likely will allow us to update those things he's left behind. I think just give him time. He may simply be waiting for 0.18 to mature, or he could be busy with other stuff. I would just give him time. Of course I agree with everyone about private use and so on, I'm just speaking the possibilities of an "official" or an "unofficial" 0.18 release.

[Koub]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/IndustrialRevolutionV18

Deadlock explicitely chose a licensing that forbids what you did. On the page you link in your version is written :

See the license for details about what you are and are not permitted to do with it. TL;DR - you can modify it for your own personal use, but you can't share modifications of it or re-use its assets in your own published works and you can't use it for any commercial purpose.

You may update it for yourself, but not share the modifications. I don't think you can change the authors license either, and yours is MIT, while Deadlock's is CC BY-NC-ND 4.0.

[GeneralTank]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/IndustrialRevolutionV18

Deadlock explicitely chose a licensing that forbids what you did. On the page you link in your version is written :

See the license for details about what you are and are not permitted to do with it. TL;DR - you can modify it for your own personal use, but you can't share modifications of it or re-use its assets in your own published works and you can't use it for any commercial purpose.

You may update it for yourself, but not share the modifications. I don't think you can change the authors license either, and yours is MIT, while Deadlock's is CC BY-NC-ND 4.0.

Frankly with the way Deadlock has acted I don't give a crap one bit. He should have already just transferred the mod to another author to maintain and not keep it to himself. I already have a huge dislike for people (and companies*) who use copyright to shut down attempts to keep games available.

Which is a shame because I was actually looking forward to IR2 but I haven't heard anything concrete yet aside from what I heard from discord. I just wish he just learn to take criticism.

*(like Nintendo)