Version 0.18.24

Information about releases and roadmap.
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Omnifarious
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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by Omnifarious »

someone1337 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:44 pm
To be learned: never ever update the first few hours after a release - this holds for EVERY software everywhere.
The final test step with mods I maintain is to have a game that uses the mod and test out loading it up and updating from the mod portal. I did that after a couple of hard lessons learned. People still might download the bad one, but at least I reduce the window.

Hiladdar
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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by Hiladdar »

Regarding testing, there is a ready pool of alpha and pre-alpha, testers. Consider mod developers as a resource, particular those who are active. Also those who are very active on this forum as well as others.

This breaks testing into multiple tiers
  • Initial coder(s)
  • Internal staff (non-coders)
  • Mod developers, active forums members, and selected others
  • Experimental release
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MEOWMI
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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by MEOWMI »

As long as it doesn't end up corrupting player data, I don't see a problem with having occasional issues like this. As stable as Factorio is, this is the experimental branch, like others also pointed out. Extra layers of testing could be worthwhile if it helped preventing big problems such as the aforementioned data corruption, but how realistic that is all depends on how easy it would be to deploy such releases.

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by Pi-C »

coppercoil wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 10:27 am
No jokes. Developers ARE pre-pre-pre-alpha testers, they always test what they've done. Hired internal testers (if any) ARE pre-pre-alpha testers. Just one step missed.
Developers are biased (this isn't meant derogatorily). Also, users are more creative when it comes to breaking things. And, of course, developers can only test things within the environment that's available to them -- which won't cover every combination of hard- and software that may be out in the wild.
Sure, it's not nice if you just want to play and you can't even start the game. But given the extremely short response time when something is really broken, I feel that's more a nuisance than a real problem.
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by coppercoil »

Pi-C wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:13 am
But given the extremely short response time when something is really broken, I feel that's more a nuisance than a real problem.
What response time would be a "real problem"? If something stays broken too long, the player can downgrade to previous version (actually, not always). So, still no real problem. We never have real problems, right?

So… can we give any **** to alpha-testers?
Small problems are still annoying, even if predicted. There can be less no-real-level problems for the wide community.

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by Jap2.0 »

Pi-C wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:13 am
Developers are biased (this isn't meant derogatorily). Also, users are more creative when it comes to breaking things. And, of course, developers can only test things within the environment that's available to them -- which won't cover every combination of hard- and software that may be out in the wild.
Sure, it's not nice if you just want to play and you can't even start the game. But given the extremely short response time when something is really broken, I feel that's more a nuisance than a real problem.
Additionally, I'm guessing most of their testing is just building from source while working, rather than updating from the last version (which, given the "Cannot load base mod version 0.18.23 with game version 0.18.65535. Update probably failed..." in the .23 logs, might be a good thing to test).
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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by plepper1 »

No biggie... This just takes a rename of the available versions.
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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by Itemfinder »

-Changed rail segment visualisation colors to be more different from rail signal colors (red/green).
Magenta is harder to see than red was. It's luminosity is almost identical to the rail.

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by steinio »

Itemfinder wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:57 am
-Changed rail segment visualisation colors to be more different from rail signal colors (red/green).
Magenta is harder to see than red was. It's luminosity is almost identical to the rail.
This change is a joke.
Only why a moron can't seperate a segment color from a signal color this happened. Oh boy.

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=82735&hilit=rail+color
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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by ickputzdirwech »

steinio wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 10:18 am
Itemfinder wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:57 am
-Changed rail segment visualisation colors to be more different from rail signal colors (red/green).
Magenta is harder to see than red was. It's luminosity is almost identical to the rail.
This change is a joke.
Only why a moron can't seperate a segment color from a signal color this happened. Oh boy.

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=82735&hilit=rail+color
I think it's a good solution. I was sceptical as well and I agree that most people should realise that the two colors have nothing to do with each other but I see why new players could be confused by it for say like the first five minutes.
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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by MageKing17 »

Itemfinder wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:57 am
-Changed rail segment visualisation colors to be more different from rail signal colors (red/green).
Magenta is harder to see than red was. It's luminosity is almost identical to the rail.
It doesn't particularly matter whether or not you see it, as long as you don't conflate it for adjacent colors; now, if there were more than one hard-to-see color, then there might be a problem, but if you just have to treat one of the colors as "invisible", that still helps differentiate rail blocks. Being colorblind, I was briefly worried about this, but after checking the new colors in-game, I'm not particularly fussed about it.

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by coppercoil »

I have an idea regarding pre-alpha testers.

What if we add an opt-out checkbox "Delay automatic updates for 24h"? Enthusiast players could uncheck it after confirmation "This can corrupt your gamesaves without a warning, you can lose all your blueprints, achievements and everything. Unexpected bugs can also hold your game until hotfix will be released". Also, another important sentence is required: "Do uncheck it if you want to participate with developers to explore new bugs". That's because many players want newest updates but do not want to encounter with bad bugs.

Every next version announcement would also include some standard brief explanation regarding that delay and reference how to change it.

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by theolderbeholder »

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the fire. Either you go experimental, or stable. I am absolutely opposing this, for educational reasons.

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by Oktokolo »

coppercoil wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 4:20 pm
What if we add an opt-out checkbox "Delay automatic updates for 24h"?
They already have a much better system: It is called "stable release" and it is what you get, if you don't explicitly go for "experimental release". There also already is a pretty visible warning on the experimental download page.

The real problem here is, that players want to get washed without getting wet!
If you want the latest shit, use experimental. If you want an almost guaranteed to be safe experience, use the stable. You can't have both.

Factorio's experimental also is way more stable than most post-release game anyway.
AAA titles get released when the updater works...

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by Kyralessa »

Not to mention that just because there's a new experimental version doesn't mean you're obligated to update to it.

Nothing prevents anyone, in the "Would you like to update now?" box, from checking "No."

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by 5thHorseman »

Kyralessa wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:08 am
Not to mention that just because there's a new experimental version doesn't mean you're obligated to update to it.

Nothing prevents anyone, in the "Would you like to update now?" box, from checking "No."
Yeah there are basically 2 versions, Steam and Download. For Steam, they do the updating for you and nothing Wube does will change that. For Download, they already give the player the ability to hold back on an update. If you are so burdened by lack of self control that you can't click "No" then that's on you, IMO. :)
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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by coppercoil »

There’s no rule in the world how many software levels can exist. There’s no such rule "either safe, or in the fire". We can have a third intermediate level. It is possible to be half-washed and half-wet. If you don’t want to, there also are other people.

You are selfish and inflexible.

I'm fine with experimental, but I see another people. I'm trying to solve their big and little problems. I like solving problems. My job is solving problems. My mind is just built in this way. But I’m not obsessed with it, and I will not fight for it.

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by 5thHorseman »

coppercoil wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:54 am
We can have a third intermediate level.
We DO have a third intermediate level. It's called not clicking "Yes, upgrade" every time it comes up, and making sure a build is fine before upgrading.

And call me inflexible all you like, but if you buy a game in early access and download the experimental builds you shouldn't just be ready for problems. You should EXPECT them.
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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by Kyralessa »

coppercoil wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:54 am
There’s no rule in the world how many software levels can exist. There’s no such rule "either safe, or in the fire". We can have a third intermediate level. It is possible to be half-washed and half-wet. If you don’t want to, there also are other people.

You are selfish and inflexible.

I'm fine with experimental, but I see another people. I'm trying to solve their big and little problems. I like solving problems. My job is solving problems. My mind is just built in this way. But I’m not obsessed with it, and I will not fight for it.
I feel like if you truly weren't obsessed with it, you wouldn't get so bent out of shape about it that you need to insult people merely because they disagree with you.

As 5thHorseman noted, the third level (actually, infinite levels) consists of choosing not to upgrade even though there's an update available.

An even better option is downloading the game as a .zip file and putting it in a new folder to test it, and only moving old saved games over after you're sure it's stable. Using the .zip file installs is also good because you can have as many installs as you like. So you can add game-changing mods to some installs while leaving others vanilla.

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Re: Version 0.18.24

Post by Serenity »

In Steam you can lock the game into the exact version you want. Currently ou can pick anything between 18.17 and 18.26

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