Factorio Forums

posila wrote: ↑

Sat May 02, 2020 8:23 am

Hello, I'd like to say we mess this up, and we are sorry we caused this problem. In the future we need to be more careful about removal of legacy code, that in our minds has been deprecated for so long "most mods wouldn't use it anymore."

We should have made better job deleting the code in 0.18.0 (because it was marked for deletion after save compatiblity with 0.15 would be dropped). Usage of deprecated values should have at least put warnings into the log, but idea of putting deprecation warning into the main menu is something we should do for next time.

Good man!

posila wrote: ↑

Sat May 02, 2020 8:23 am

Usage of deprecated values should have at least put warnings into the log.

Considering a lot of other depreciated values have done this in the past.... Yes, Somebody on the team should have put warnings into the logs.
But what's done is done, lets just worry about the next time.



Also, for other people still whining about it... if you read the FFFs at all (I try to, but the very dark background and light font is like the page is stabbing my eyeballs while I try to read it), they did mention that 0.18 will be different than all other versions of Factorio experimental... instead of spending half a year in development adding all the intended features... they just added... 2, then released the experimental version, with the plan to add the rest over time.

This translates to: UPDATES WILL BREAK YOUR MODS!
If you go back and look at my post on the first page, I'm basically just asking for information on how to fix my mods, rather than complaining that the update broke them.

And fairly consistently, every 3 or 4 updates have done something that has caused me to change something in my mods.
Honestly, I'd prefer it this way instead of having to spend a month going through all my mods when the initial 0.18 experimental releases just to update them to work.
And in the Dev's favor, there doesn't have to be a "Feature" phase, then a "Fixing" phase, We are the testers! So, the devs are able to fix things at the same time as new features are being added. (Which in theory reduces total development time down to between 60% and 80% as long)

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Mon May 04, 2020 4:55 pm

the very dark background and light font is like the page is stabbing my eyeballs while I try to read it

Would you prefer this?


If so, go to User Control Panel -> Board Preferences -> My Board Style and then select ProSilver.

I'm using it right now and it seems fully functional, though I prefer the dark theme so am going back to it.

5thHorseman wrote: ↑

Tue May 05, 2020 12:51 am

Would you prefer this?

Website, not forum.

That said, there should be a few ways to get around it - I checked and reader mode on Firefox for Android will put it in a light theme (actually I just found out that it will let you choose a theme... Honestly I need to use that more often; I haven't checked if that's a thing on desktop either, but it might be), and I think that some eg. dark mode extensions will do the same (edit: never mind, the example I had actually doesn't), so I think there should be some good options.

I'm using a modified version of Global dark style for Stylus in Firefox. Looks like this...
That is my global view of webpages, IIRC I choose a Github like background and also changed default text color to #999
Anything else will fry my eyes

5thHorseman wrote: ↑

Tue May 05, 2020 12:51 am

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Mon May 04, 2020 4:55 pm

the very dark background and light font is like the page is stabbing my eyeballs while I try to read it

Would you prefer this?

If so, go to User Control Panel -> Board Preferences -> My Board Style and then select ProSilver.

Yes, I actually use Pro-silver WIDE myself (Wide version means it uses my whole screen, not just a strip down the middle 3rd), But the FFFs are on the factorio main page, they're not on the forums. and as far as I can tell, there's no option for it on www.factorio.com.

fishycat wrote: ↑

Tue May 05, 2020 10:37 am

I'm using a modified version of Global dark style for Stylus in Firefox. Looks like this...


That is my global view of webpages, IIRC I choose a Github like background and also changed default text color to #999
Anything else will fry my eyes

That text colour isn't bad, I would be content reading a web page with that theme, because the text is a mid-grey, not the almost white that the factorio main page has.

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Tue May 05, 2020 11:13 am

That text colour isn't bad, I would be content reading a web page with that theme, because the text is a mid-grey, not the almost white that the factorio main page has.

The Factorio main page can be set to black-on-white with the following style in Stylus: You can also do the changes temporarily in the DOM view of the browser opened by "inspect" in the context menu.

I maybe wrong, but it appears that you've drastically Nerfed the play-style of the Wave Defense within version 18.22...

I've only recently returned to Factorio, therefore I maybe mistaken, apologies if i am, but from the YouTube video's of WaveDefence I've seen (pre .18) it appears as though points were accumulated previously for upgrades from mere biter kills from the base perimeter defense... allowing one to truly focus on defense and building up.

Whereas when I've recently updated (had taken a break since .16 so wave defense was/is completely new to me - Amazing addition btw! Always have and Always will Love Factorio!!!) and dived into WaveDefence on latest version .18.22, it appears that you now only now score points for upgrades from killing spawners or worms... whilst playing WaveDefense solo this makes the difficulty curve rather Extreme... I feel as though you've taken a balancing measure too far with recent changes... when I've viewed WaveDefence youtube vids from 0.17.xx it does seem they build up far too many upgrade points from doing feck all but maintaining and defending the launcher/building up automation without thinking about the biters... only when i've tried Wave Defense in .18.xx on Hard (solo) it was Fecking impossible... thought it maybe just because I was rusty having not played since .16.xx era... so I tried again on Normal... same annihilation... and most recently I've spent an evening building up blueprints in sandbox/god mode (another addition I like) and Importing them at the launch of wave defense and trying on Easy, ultimately with the same result... complete annihilation around wave 15 on easy... Just for reference without BP's on Hard I made it to wave 30 solo... first time playing wave defense before looking at youtube for any playthrough tips...

The gameplay mode is a Great addition, and I'm glad it's there and that in the time I've been away from the game you've been adding to the different play styles, rather than just a freeplay being the main game (don't get me wrong, I love free play and have lost hundreds of hours in the game making Huge bases lol ), as i want you guys to have great success with what you've created. It just feels as tho the removal of points scored from biter kills is a nerf gone a little too far... maybe half or 1/4 the points earned from biter kills would be a better option for this playstyle

I hope and intend this to be an informative and helpful forum post for the Devs, please don't take this as me simply moaning...

Many Thanks

Long Term, and Continued Factorio Lover/Addict! lol

Bobins wrote: ↑

Fri May 08, 2020 4:06 am

I maybe wrong, but it appears that you've drastically Nerfed the play-style of the Wave Defense within version 18.22...

That happened in 0.18.9 already. The changes to Wave Defense were a topic of FFF 335, in case you want to read up on it.

Pi-C wrote: ↑

Fri May 08, 2020 5:18 am

Bobins wrote: ↑

Fri May 08, 2020 4:06 am

I maybe wrong, but it appears that you've drastically Nerfed the play-style of the Wave Defense within version 18.22...

That happened in 0.18.9 already. The changes to Wave Defense were a topic of FFF 335, in case you want to read up on it.

Hey , thanks for the link and the update on when and which FFF mentioned changes to Wave-Defense... I will view the FFF post you've linked momentarily, the post may change my stance/reply, as, as mentioned in my post I'm freshly returned from a pre 0.16.xx era... my only play through of the Wave-Defense game play has been in the 0.18.22 state; my first and only play through of this (new to me) game mode.

Once I hit a brick wall on Hard @ ~lvl30+wave... I queried my ability, as maybe being rusty/forgetful of builds... therefor I downgraded the difficulty time and again and ultimately viewed You-Tubers experience of Wave-Defence to get tips, which is when I noticed that prior to 0.18.xx (You-Tubers playing on 0.17.xx - The only vids i could find for Wave-Defense) players were getting huge amounts of upgrade points from general biter kills & also points from personal kills around the perimeter.

Now as mentioned I appreciate the need to balance the game, hence my suggestions in my inital post of a scalled reduction for Biter kills... I will read the FFF you've just linked in a moment... but I thought I would reply before hand to give a true reflection of my thoughts for the Devs, as my initial post was indeed a true reflection of game changes for the creators since i previously played (cant remember exactly when I last played, only know prior to 0.16.x as the saves I had on steam cloud are no longer valid prior to that lol)...

My personal thought process may drastically change after reading the developers thought processes in the FFF you've mentioned but at this current moment I doubt Ill see the nerf as anything but an Over zelous nerf (noting I believed a nerf was Def needed for this playstyle from the vids I had viewed prior to my post)

I'm going to read/view the FFF you've mentioned but thought i'd say before hand, it seems maybe a dynamic nerf is whats actually required... only points from nests and worms when there are 2 or more players... allowing points from biters when solo but at a very, very low percentile.... as mentioned before, from the clips I've seen... I believe the game state definitely needed balancing as some people I viewed, who only concentrated on the base interior and automation built up Tons of upgrade points in no time at all... which made the whole game playstyle a bit meaningless... however as my current newly returned experience shows (and i hope is helpful to devs) it seems, from a solo point of view that the nerf has gone a tad too far... i'll return in a moment if my thoughts are any different after reading the FFF... but none-the-less the FFF's are generally only read by long term players... which i was and still class myself as... but i did take a break... so my initial views having stopped playing since 0.16.xx until now, i believe will likely be more meaning full to the devs for the purposes of balancing and enticing new players... than my views as a long standing FFF reader will be (as I class myself, bar the obvious gap I've mentioned )

First of all, my apologies for my overly waffling posts previously, (this seems to have turned into much of the same... so sorry again lol ) I was rather intoxicated, previously, after a few too many beverages during the current lock-down within the UK... Although my intention was always to aid in a constructive discussion which will help the Devs

I thought I should post a further submission with an update to my Wave Defense (WD) progression... as I’m happy to say I've now beaten wave defense on Easy setting, albeit by surprise! It appears my sabbatical from playing Factorio resulted in a few crucial tactics being forgotten &/or being lax about... the main one, one of the most important adages of all time imo... That being “The best defense is a good offense" I.e clearing out the closest bitter nests around the walls, pushing them back, whilst building up an automated, Armor-piercing, ammo supply to the defense turrets (adding additional turrets in areas of high pressure also) seemed to do the trick...

One thing I should mention though, the win condition of clearing all biter nests on the ‘island’ (how I beat WD) caught me by surprise... I'm assuming the way WD works is the nests in a certain range of the starting area are programmed to produce waves and attack and once cleared it fulfills this win criteria... however the map spawned with the usual biters going Way beyond this... so it wasn’t actually clear where the boundary lay... I cleared much deeper into the biters on 3 of the fronts, before tackling what happened to be the ‘last’ biter nest to fulfill the ‘clear biter nests’ win criteria... this inadvertently gave me lots of extra points... buffing up my defense yet the biter nests beyond a certain point either don’t do anything or don’t count towards the win criteria...

Therefor I feel I may have cheated a bit... by inadvertently point farming by clearing biter nests that weren't flooded with Behemoth Biters...

All in all, I must stress that I Love the addition of Wave Defense to the game Keep up the good work Devs!

Much Love Bobs