Version 0.17.58

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Version 0.17.58

Post by FactorioBot » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:23 pm

Bugfixes
  • Fixed a crash related to researching technologies through script.
  • Fixed a crash when opening other settings on the steam version of the game. (73306)
Use the automatic updater if you can (check experimental updates in other settings) or download full installation at http://www.factorio.com/download/experimental.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by Gergely » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:24 pm

See, this is also why I'm waiting for stable.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by darkfrei » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:42 pm

Gergely wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:24 pm
See, this is also why I'm waiting for stable.
If you play and test experimental then the stable version comes earlier!

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by Omnifarious » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:21 am

Gergely wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:24 pm
See, this is also why I'm waiting for stable.
While I'm hesitant to use new versions because of the terrible changes to the rail planner, I will say that Factorio experimental versions are generally far more stable than most games release versions. I've never suffered from any significant bug in Factorio, and I've generally played bleeding edge releases when they were available.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by slippycheeze » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:50 am

Omnifarious wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:21 am
Gergely wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:24 pm
See, this is also why I'm waiting for stable.
While I'm hesitant to use new versions because of the terrible changes to the rail planner, I will say that Factorio experimental versions are generally far more stable than most games release versions. I've never suffered from any significant bug in Factorio, and I've generally played bleeding edge releases when they were available.
There ... are no changes to the rail planner, are there?

Do you mean the change that prevents rail bounding boxes being changed by mods, or is there something else you mean?

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by Omnifarious » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:53 am

slippycheeze wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:50 am
There ... are no changes to the rail planner, are there?

Do you mean the change that prevents rail bounding boxes being changed by mods, or is there something else you mean?
I only wish there were changes to the rail planner. No, the changes I'm very annoyed about (even still) are the ones released in 0.17.29. I want my rails to loop around cliffs or trees most of the time.

I just tried a different solution where I placed ghosts over the stuff I didn't want the rails to route through. It was, very unsatisfactory. About as fiddly as hand placing the rails the entire distance. I took screenshots with the intention of making a Reddit post about it, but haven't yet.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by JaJe » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:44 am

While other games on Early Access I do find some bugs, some of them very nasty that won't let you complete a task. To Factorio since 0.16 I never had any issue beside mod incompatibility or auto-updater error. Overall I'm really happy with it.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by Gergely » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:08 am

darkfrei wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:42 pm
Gergely wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:24 pm
See, this is also why I'm waiting for stable.
If you play and test experimental then the stable version comes earlier!
I mean waiting for stable to start a freeplay. I didn't mean I am not even touching the game.

I didn't start free play since the one I started at 0.13 stable and I didn't play any since 0.15 broke it. I have been waiting ever since to start another free play, but I did play with my creative mode scenario in the meantime. A lot.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by gaelyte » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:27 pm

Omnifarious wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:53 am
slippycheeze wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:50 am
There ... are no changes to the rail planner, are there?

Do you mean the change that prevents rail bounding boxes being changed by mods, or is there something else you mean?
I only wish there were changes to the rail planner. No, the changes I'm very annoyed about (even still) are the ones released in 0.17.29. I want my rails to loop around cliffs or trees most of the time.

I just tried a different solution where I placed ghosts over the stuff I didn't want the rails to route through. It was, very unsatisfactory. About as fiddly as hand placing the rails the entire distance. I took screenshots with the intention of making a Reddit post about it, but haven't yet.
Placing ghost on the trees makes the rails avoid them ? So a mod that place ghost where the trees are would do the work ? (Even if it wouldn't be really optimized, but when the devs suppress a useful tool, the mod replacement is rarely better)

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by Omnifarious » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:00 pm

gaelyte wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:27 pm
Omnifarious wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:53 am
I just tried a different solution where I placed ghosts over the stuff I didn't want the rails to route through. It was, very unsatisfactory. About as fiddly as hand placing the rails the entire distance. I took screenshots with the intention of making a Reddit post about it, but haven't yet.
Placing ghost on the trees makes the rails avoid them ? So a mod that place ghost where the trees are would do the work ? (Even if it wouldn't be really optimized, but when the devs suppress a useful tool, the mod replacement is rarely better)
That could work. It'd have to place ghosts where cliffs are too. And also, technically, where rocks are. Though I personally don't ever care about avoiding rocks.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by FuryoftheStars » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:14 pm

R.I.P. rail-planner obstacle avoidance.

And definitely finding the new one a PITA when it comes to trying to rotate the ghost version.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by kovarex » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:34 pm

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:14 pm
R.I.P. rail-planner obstacle avoidance.

And definitely finding the new one a PITA when it comes to trying to rotate the ghost version.
Enabling the obstacle avoidance is super easy to do, we just didn't find any practical way to control it. (Options is weird, shortcut bar is weird, another control feels clumsy).
If there are enough of people wanting that, we could make some obscure option or command for that.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by FuryoftheStars » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:41 pm

kovarex wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:34 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:14 pm
R.I.P. rail-planner obstacle avoidance.

And definitely finding the new one a PITA when it comes to trying to rotate the ghost version.
Enabling the obstacle avoidance is super easy to do, we just didn't find any practical way to control it. (Options is weird, shortcut bar is weird, another control feels clumsy).
If there are enough of people wanting that, we could make some obscure option or command for that.
Thanks, kovarex. Would it be possible to just put it onto a different binding key? I believe previously you used shift to toggle the object avoidance on/off. Could this just be remapped to a different key, for example, ctrl? I know there have been a number of people that have commented and asked for it back, in the various release threads and even a request thread, here.

Also, with the current system in having to hold shift to get the ghost rail planner, this becomes an annoyance with rotating as you can only rotate in one direction and releasing then repressing shift does not remember the last rotation.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by 5thHorseman » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:52 pm

kovarex wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:34 pm
If there are enough of people wanting that, we could make some obscure option or command for that.
Add my vote to the start of what I expect will be a long list :)
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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by Trebor » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:20 pm

5thHorseman wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:52 pm
kovarex wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:34 pm
If there are enough of people wanting that, we could make some obscure option or command for that.
Add my vote to the start of what I expect will be a long list :)
+1 for this also.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by otobot1 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:28 pm

Trebor wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:20 pm
5thHorseman wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:52 pm
kovarex wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:34 pm
If there are enough of people wanting that, we could make some obscure option or command for that.
Add my vote to the start of what I expect will be a long list :)
+1 for this also.
Yes! Definitely. This change has been very annoying. Maybe hold shift for the current behaviour and ctrl or shift+ctrl for the object avoidance rail planner?

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by eradicator » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:50 pm

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:41 pm
Also, with the current system in having to hold shift to get the ghost rail planner, this becomes an annoyance with rotating as you can only rotate in one direction and releasing then repressing shift does not remember the last rotation.
One-direction-rotation is *the* most annoying part of the current behavior to me, but obstacle avoidance is place two.
kovarex wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:34 pm
Enabling the obstacle avoidance is super easy to do, we just didn't find any practical way to control it. (Options is weird, shortcut bar is weird, another control feels clumsy).
If there are enough of people wanting that, we could make some obscure option or command for that.
+1 (and an extra +1 for every thousand posts i made :p). Give it back!!!11! :mrgreen:

I'd say "add it to the api and let mods figure it out", but mods are too limited in reacting to input for this. The old "clunky" system always worked fine for me, but maybe a third modifier key would work even better (four possible modes with four possible combinations of shift/alt). If the secondary modifier key is default "unassigned" i think that'd be obscure enough for most people to never notice it.
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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by slippycheeze » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:40 pm

Omnifarious wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:53 am
slippycheeze wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:50 am
There ... are no changes to the rail planner, are there?

Do you mean the change that prevents rail bounding boxes being changed by mods, or is there something else you mean?
I only wish there were changes to the rail planner. No, the changes I'm very annoyed about (even still) are the ones released in 0.17.29. I want my rails to loop around cliffs or trees most of the time.
Heh. All the recent fuss had me forget that. Looks like a nice thing I asked, though, because discussion about bringing it back happened. Either way, thanks for explaining. :)

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by Omnifarious » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:18 pm

eradicator wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:50 pm
kovarex wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:34 pm
Enabling the obstacle avoidance is super easy to do, we just didn't find any practical way to control it. (Options is weird, shortcut bar is weird, another control feels clumsy).
If there are enough of people wanting that, we could make some obscure option or command for that.
+1 (and an extra +1 for every thousand posts i made :p). Give it back!!!11! :mrgreen:

I'd say "add it to the api and let mods figure it out", but mods are too limited in reacting to input for this. The old "clunky" system always worked fine for me, but maybe a third modifier key would work even better (four possible modes with four possible combinations of shift/alt). If the secondary modifier key is default "unassigned" i think that'd be obscure enough for most people to never notice it.
I vote for yet another modifier key as well. :-( It's awkward and weird, but it does make for a fun trick to tell people about who'll say "I've been playing the game for months and never knew you could do that!". :P Having it also work to reverse rotate would be good, but even more bizarre. ;-)

If that doesn't happen, I may sit down and see if I can make a planner-style mod that lets you mark the borders of forest and cliffs with ghosts for a 1x1 entity that can't made by any recipe while also avoiding actually deconstructing any trees or cliffs. It should prove a lot more interesting to people than LD AutoCircuit.

Having mod hooks into the rail planner might be very nice though. I could see a mod that automatically placed connected poles all along tracks as soon as they were built. That'd require some kind of event when someone pressed the button to actually build a rail line that had information that allowed you to pathfind along the ghost rail. Maybe that event already exists and I just don't know. I certainly don't have encyclopaedic knowledge of the mod api.

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Re: Version 0.17.58

Post by Vxsote » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:59 pm

I figure now is a decent time to reiterate my desire for the old rail planner or equivalent functionality in terms of obstacle avoidance. Clumsy is better than "can't do that anymore" IMO. I've been busy with some other games recently, but have been dreading the new rail planner and was hoping it would be changed back by the time I get the itch to play again.

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