Version 0.16.47

Information about releases and roadmap.
Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1993
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Jap2.0 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:53 pm

Twinsen wrote:You can't rename your CPU to your street address and the sue us.
I mean, I could, I'd just lose.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

Loewchen
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 5185
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Loewchen » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:07 pm

ChurchOrganist wrote:
ChurchOrganist wrote:So are trains completely back to normal now??
I take it that's a no then??????
There a changes to train behaviour that will come in in the next version, you can find that in in the bug report section or in the changelog later on.

Floaf
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:09 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Floaf » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:30 pm

Twinsen wrote:The extent to which the windows username is personally identifiable data depends strongly on how you interpret the law text. Just because it could be your real name, religion, gender does not mean it is. You can't rename your CPU to your street address and the sue us.
Well, the regulation say that if the data can identify you in any way then it is personal information and should not be collected without:
1. good reason for the service provided (witch this is not since username is not needed for debugging) and
2. without the users concent.

So if you have a unique name then it should be removed since it can identify you (like using a first and last name). That is what privacy by design mean, remove every chance of collect unnessecary information when possible.
So, this is showing good mannars and intentions :-)

User avatar
Oktokolo
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:45 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Oktokolo » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:35 pm

Twinsen wrote:The extent to which the windows username is personally identifiable data depends strongly on how you interpret the law text.
Just do the mind experiment: How likely would it be, that a judge uses his real name for his Windows account. How would someone who uses his real name for his Windows account, would interpret the law.

User avatar
Oktokolo
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:45 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Oktokolo » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:22 pm

Floaf wrote:Well, the regulation say that if the data can identify you in any way then it is personal information and should not be collected without:
1. good reason for the service provided (witch this is not since username is not needed for debugging) and
2. without the users concent.
Actually, one of the reasons is enough. You need a good reason.
Or you need explicit and informed user consent, wich has to be fully optional - meaning, that it must not be a requirement to use the service or any part of it.
As an Example, you might transfer the content of the user's harddisk after you got an explicit, informed and fully optional opt-in for doing that. But almost all users would just refuse to opt-in. ;)

Unclebod
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Unclebod » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:24 pm

Oktokolo wrote:
Twinsen wrote:The extent to which the windows username is personally identifiable data depends strongly on how you interpret the law text.
Just do the mind experiment: How likely would it be, that a judge uses his real name for his Windows account. How would someone who uses his real name for his Windows account, would interpret the law.
And to take it one step further - how will the court decide? That is the most important question.
I hope that Wube has a law firm that helps them look into this matter.

/UncleBod

User avatar
Oktokolo
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:45 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Oktokolo » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:38 pm

Unclebod wrote:I hope that Wube has a law firm that helps them look into this matter.
Well, there is no reason to assume, that they need one. The GDPR is a behemoth of legalese. But it all just about not collecting data you do not really need and informing the user about what gets collected, how long it is stored and what it is used for.
Wube already fixed the bug report problems. They probably are checking their site right now and will update it soon.

Also, who would sue someone like Wube?!
They are not Facebook, Google, Blizzard, EA, Ubisoft... We actually love Factorio and therefore we like Wube. We want to see them do the next big thing. So no reason for fearmongering. It is all fine now and will get even better!

User avatar
bobingabout
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 6723
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 1:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by bobingabout » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:51 am

Twinsen wrote:The extent to which the windows username is personally identifiable data depends strongly on how you interpret the law text. Just because it could be your real name, religion, gender does not mean it is. You can't rename your CPU to your street address and the sue us.
Honestly, I'm not sure what else you can actually do for GDPR, you're on the right level as far as I can tell.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.
I also have a Patreon.

kovarex
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 7362
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:00 am
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by kovarex » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:36 pm

Oktokolo wrote:
Floaf wrote:Well, the regulation say that if the data can identify you in any way then it is personal information and should not be collected without:
1. good reason for the service provided (witch this is not since username is not needed for debugging) and
2. without the users concent.
has to be fully optional - meaning, that it must not be a requirement to use the service or any part of it.
GDPR is bullshit, but this, if this is really true, than it is pure idiocy. You can't deny the service to someone based on not agreeing with your rules? WTF? Just another reason of making two categories for laws:
  • Laws that are moral and make sense, these should be obeyed
  • Bullshit which should be ignored

youdoomt
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by youdoomt » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:29 pm

Some thing in GDPR sure feels like bullshit, at my job we're working on an update to a system, which contains names of the employees, and there is a high chance that we need to make a procedure of anonymising/deleting the names, when they stop being employees.
it's just a name, but the rules says so.
I even got a task to doublecheck this with the company's Legal counselor, because it's quite a hassle, if we have to do it.

Loewchen
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 5185
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Loewchen » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:54 pm

kovarex wrote:
Oktokolo wrote:
Floaf wrote:Well, the regulation say that if the data can identify you in any way then it is personal information and should not be collected without:
1. good reason for the service provided (witch this is not since username is not needed for debugging) and
2. without the users concent.
has to be fully optional - meaning, that it must not be a requirement to use the service or any part of it.
GDPR is bullshit, but this, if this is really true, than it is pure idiocy.
Fortunately none of this is true.

User avatar
DarkyPupu
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by DarkyPupu » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:39 pm

You can't deny the service to someone based on not agreeing with your rules?
Actually FB is being sued against that :D

Back to Factorio, i think you're already more than enough trying to comply with GDPR and what may stay still is small fry where no reasonnable people would bother. Like said above Wube is definitely not the target company of this law... unless you hide your business model very well :lol:

User avatar
Gergely
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Gergely » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:08 pm

Loewchen wrote:
kovarex wrote:
Oktokolo wrote:
Floaf wrote:Well, the regulation say that if the data can identify you in any way then it is personal information and should not be collected without:
1. good reason for the service provided (witch this is not since username is not needed for debugging) and
2. without the users concent.
has to be fully optional - meaning, that it must not be a requirement to use the service or any part of it.
GDPR is bullshit, but this, if this is really true, than it is pure idiocy.
Fortunately none of this is true.
This sums up what's the problem with GDPR:
no-logging.png
no-logging.png (2.74 KiB) Viewed 1695 times
If there is no feedback, there is little to no progress.
They literally cut down one of the most powerful tools in programming for no clear reason at all.

User avatar
Oktokolo
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:45 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Oktokolo » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:22 pm

kovarex wrote:
Oktokolo wrote:
Floaf wrote:Well, the regulation say that if the data can identify you in any way then it is personal information and should not be collected without:
1. good reason for the service provided (witch this is not since username is not needed for debugging) and
2. without the users concent.
has to be fully optional - meaning, that it must not be a requirement to use the service or any part of it.
This quote is not complete enough to not alter the meaning of what has been quoted!
I wrote, that only one of the conditions has to be met. Also i said, that user consent only counts if it is not bundled with the ability to use the service. If you actually need the data to provide the service, you do not have to ask for consent at all.

Merssedes
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:05 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Merssedes » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:04 am

Gergely wrote:
Loewchen wrote:
kovarex wrote:
Oktokolo wrote:
Floaf wrote:Well, the regulation say that if the data can identify you in any way then it is personal information and should not be collected without:
1. good reason for the service provided (witch this is not since username is not needed for debugging) and
2. without the users concent.
has to be fully optional - meaning, that it must not be a requirement to use the service or any part of it.
GDPR is bullshit, but this, if this is really true, than it is pure idiocy.
Fortunately none of this is true.
This sums up what's the problem with GDPR:
no-logging.png
If there is no feedback, there is little to no progress.
They literally cut down one of the most powerful tools in programming for no clear reason at all.
IMHO, "no logging" in not the only solution. If you organize logs the way it not contains identification data, they still can be pretty useful. For example, if your program not requires files search in some form, you don't need their pathes in log to maintain it readable. Same with feedbacks.

I didn't read GDPR, but in Russia we've somewhat similar laws according to what I've read so far.

User avatar
Gergely
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by Gergely » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:14 am

Merssedes wrote:
Gergely wrote: This sums up what's the problem with GDPR:
Image
If there is no feedback, there is little to no progress.
They literally cut down one of the most powerful tools in programming for no clear reason at all.
IMHO, "no logging" in not the only solution. If you organize logs the way it not contains identification data, they still can be pretty useful. For example, if your program not requires files search in some form, you don't need their pathes in log to maintain it readable. Same with feedbacks.

I didn't read GDPR, but in Russia we've somewhat similar laws according to what I've read so far.
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about memory dumps. There is no way to ensure that they do not contain anything sensitive. Correct me if I am wrong. :(

User avatar
bobingabout
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 6723
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 1:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by bobingabout » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:55 am

kovarex wrote:
Oktokolo wrote:
Floaf wrote:Well, the regulation say that if the data can identify you in any way then it is personal information and should not be collected without:
1. good reason for the service provided (witch this is not since username is not needed for debugging) and
2. without the users concent.
has to be fully optional - meaning, that it must not be a requirement to use the service or any part of it.
GDPR is bullshit, but this, if this is really true, than it is pure idiocy. You can't deny the service to someone based on not agreeing with your rules? WTF? Just another reason of making two categories for laws:
  • Laws that are moral and make sense, these should be obeyed
  • Bullshit which should be ignored
It is Law, and you could be sued for not following them. (And honestly, this did kind of sneak up on a lot of people.)


My mum for example, manager of a local pre-school, was getting spammed by the government that she has to do this, before she's allowed to do that, and that she's not allowed to do this.

In short, she had to ASK all her employees if it was okay to keep their personal information, such as National insurance number, and bank account details, so that she can PAY them, and without consent she would be obliged to erase that data. (Which is fucked up)
On top of that, she had to inform ALL the parents of her children that they want to keep national insurance numbers, and phone numbers, etc., why they want to keep this data, and most importantly, allow them to continue to attend even if they don't want to let them keep the data.


This is some SERIOUS shit, and may be over the top, but it is law, and must be obeyed, even if you think it is fucking stupid.

On that note, you're already breaking the law right here, because the forums haven't asked me if it is okay to store cookies yet. (Like, 90% of websites I have visited on or since the 25th of may have asked if it is okay to store cookies, as per the GDPR compliance)
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.
I also have a Patreon.

youdoomt
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by youdoomt » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:27 am

bobingabout wrote:In short, she had to ASK all her employees if it was okay to keep their personal information,
From my understanding she only has to inform them of the change, as voluntary compulsion(I hope google translate is correct) is a legal thing in GDPR.

User avatar
steinio
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:19 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by steinio » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:52 pm

Thank god everyone is a GDPR expert these days, NOT
Image
Transport Belt Repair Man
My little mods: Link | My favourite mods: Bob's Mods | Angel's Mods | Yuoki Railway Core | EvoGUI | Logistic Train Network
Factorio Cheat Sheet by Denis Zholob

View unread Posts

User avatar
SuperSandro2000
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:54 am
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.47

Post by SuperSandro2000 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:05 pm

bobingabout wrote: It is Law, and you could be sued for not following them. (And honestly, this did kind of sneak up on a lot of people.)


My mum for example, manager of a local pre-school, was getting spammed by the government that she has to do this, before she's allowed to do that, and that she's not allowed to do this.

In short, she had to ASK all her employees if it was okay to keep their personal information, such as National insurance number, and bank account details, so that she can PAY them, and without consent she would be obliged to erase that data. (Which is fucked up)
On top of that, she had to inform ALL the parents of her children that they want to keep national insurance numbers, and phone numbers, etc., why they want to keep this data, and most importantly, allow them to continue to attend even if they don't want to let them keep the data.


This is some SERIOUS shit, and may be over the top, but it is law, and must be obeyed, even if you think it is fucking stupid.

On that note, you're already breaking the law right here, because the forums haven't asked me if it is okay to store cookies yet. (Like, 90% of websites I have visited on or since the 25th of may have asked if it is okay to store cookies, as per the GDPR compliance)
Is there a chrome extension to hide these stupid cookie warnings? Most of the websites I visit since 25th May don't spam me with Ad popups but legal stuff. Untick everything and let me trough that shit.

And GDPR should in theory inform companies before they are being sued so that they can change stuff to meet GDPR.

And Facebook and Google got sued by an "hobby suer".
Last edited by SuperSandro2000 on Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply

Return to “Releases”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users