Version 0.16.27

Information about releases and roadmap.
User avatar
Deadly-Bagel
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1493
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:12 am
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:03 am

eradicator wrote:Same for electrical engines. Makes absolutely no sense to build them from old mechanical engines, totally different physics.
I said it could be explained away - consider that Burner Inserters and Burner Mining Drills don't need an engine to work, so the power generated from "burner" entities isn't from an engine. The engines used in cars, tanks and trains therefore doesn't comply with your idea of an engine, and therefore it could possibly be some design that can easily be upgraded to electric by adding parts only (no need to remove or replace anything). Is it thin? Sure, but so is a lot of logic in the game.
eradicator wrote:As for stuff in chests, i don't really understand why everybody seems to care so much about that. A generic recycling machine to turn old machines into scrap metal to remelt into plates? Sure i'd use that. But trying to design a belt based system that properly moves all the random stuff from the "garbage" chests to some place in the factory where it's actually needed is far more trouble than it could ever be worth to me. That kind of back-into-production recycling is only feasible with bots, and i don't want to put random requester chests all over the place just for recycling. So...i'm glad to tell you that i already have large amounts of old belts stored...somewhere. Factorio is about mass production, not micro-recycling :P
It's generally agreed a machine would be pointless, as you say the return generally wouldn't be worth it. That is why I would suggest an inventory recycler instead, no fuss just delete the item --- particularly useful when you're dismantling an old outpost and can't fit the last few items, just delete all the junk items that inevitably build up in your inventory as you replace stuff (I'm looking at you Small Electric Pole).

Belts are a must-recycle for me. Each Fast Transport Belt is worth 11.5 iron so 1,000 of them would cost 11,500 iron, and I usually have several thousand by the time I begin properly making blue belts. Even suggesting they should not upgrade is inane, I don't care how illogical it is, it would severely discourage most players from expanding their factory early (far more so than shying from Steel Furnaces), we have enough of that already with how tedious it is to replace belt lines. And it's really not difficult to have an "upgrade" production line, just have each belt type output to chests before the next Assembler picks them up, and use circuits to limit production. When you get bots you can replace them with Requester Chests - using circuits to limit production means you can otherwise fill them as you wish, even manually until you get bots. This actually works really well with Player Logistic/Trash Slots, as you replace belts the old ones are taken away, upgraded, and returned to you.

I agree micro-recycling is pointless, I've said that a few times, but so is having relics lying around. I'm pretty sure every single new player upgrades all their Mining Drills and Furnaces, looks at the old ones and goes "right, where's the trash can?" Many will search online for a solution, which is "there isn't one, just keep them forever. If it annoys you then put them in a bot and shoot it." Not particularly innovative solutions, especially for the more OCD-inclined types.
bobingabout wrote:I also did an experiment with robot stuff in logistics so that you can build robots of the right tier straight up, with appropriate costs, but it does leave that hole where the old ones go unused. which is where recycling them back for raw materials would be a good idea, but then if everything you build costs titanium, why would you need your steel and aluminium back?
It's not so much getting the materials back, it's using them in the first place. If the player knows they're going to be upgrading anyway, why bother with the slow stuff? It's just a waste of resources. Most players jump straight to the third tier of Power Armour for this reason.

It's been a while since I played your mods but from memory you have tiers of resource right? From your example Aluminium is typically used in lower level products than Titanium, but if the higher-level products are built from scratch then what's the point of even mining Aluminium in the first place? Just brute force your way through the science and go straight for Titanium, why would I waste my time setting up Aluminium mining, smelting and products when such products are going to be redundant pretty quickly anyway? Maybe there's a few things it's needed for, either to break through a barrier (such as how Oil Processing is needed before you can research Advanced Oil Processing) or if a small amount is used in some top-tier products, but I could set up a much smaller production in that case.
Money might be the root of all evil, but ignorance is the heart.

Zavian
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1406
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:57 am
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by Zavian » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:18 am

Expensive things which are made in multiple tiers, but only in very limited quantities are actually perfect targets for recipes that require the previous tier. eg players normally jump straight to power armour tier 3, because it not worthwhile to build the previous tier, when you know you will be able to build tier 3 soon. Now if power armour tier 2 and 3 each required the previous tier, then players would be much more like to build and use tier 1 and 2, since they know that they need to build it anyway.

Similarly if personal fusion reactors required 10 personal solar panels as an ingredient, then I'd be much more likely to build personal solar, despite my opinion that they cost to much for the small amount of power that they generate. (I know fusion reactors needing solar panels as an ingredient doesn't make sense, but it makes a good example of the principal).

nate_bug_03
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by nate_bug_03 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:24 pm

Tankh wrote:OMG Extra sexy concrete!!!
What's next. CONCRETE INSERTERS??!!?!?!

User avatar
Deadly-Bagel
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1493
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:12 am
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:55 pm

Zavian wrote:Now if power armour tier 2 and 3 each required the previous tier, then players would be much more like to build and use tier 1 and 2, since they know that they need to build it anyway.
Yes! Exactly! This has been another hot point of discussion for years but the core of it is "why should I invest in Power Armour when I can put that time straight into Power Armour MK II?" You need some 1500 Processing Units for the research and another 340 for the armour, in oppose to just 40 for the MK I, but what are numbers to a Factorio production queue? Besides, by this time you can already build bots and Roboports so in the meantime you can set up base logistics and construction to handle your expansions.

In my first 0.15 game I did try to use the lower tier armours, but their attempt at making personal Construction Robots available earlier felt a bit feeble IMO. You can only handle a few of them and if they run out of charge (which they did frequently) I found myself just plucking them out of the air because what else do you do while standing around. To boot their base speed is very slow and when deconstructing Gun Turrets or anything with items in it the low stack size drags things out. It's just as easy to put up without them until you can do it properly.

If you know you're going to build a MK I later anyway then it turns from a "why" into a "why not", once you've got it you're less rushed to jump to the top level which encourages much more natural game progression.
Money might be the root of all evil, but ignorance is the heart.

User avatar
bobingabout
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 6676
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 1:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by bobingabout » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:07 pm

I think the biggest issue with armors, which my mod just blatently ignores, is that if you upgrade an armor that has modules installed, those modules just, poof, disappear.

I can't remember if they put something in place to stop that, but I know the idea behind what they changed with the definition on vehicles, so you can pick them up with grid items still installed, was partly to prevent people from being able to craft a MK2 locomotive out of a MK1 locomotive that had a grid containing equipment.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

Merssedes
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:05 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by Merssedes » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:58 pm

IMHO, if you warry about items in armor grid, just disallow usage of armor with any items in grid for crafting.
Want to use for crafting -- clear it's grid. If i'm corrent, there is currently no way to place items in armor grid other then by hand or script.

User avatar
Deadly-Bagel
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1493
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:12 am
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:14 pm

Like I said that's not a barrier, it's a hurdle. There are a number of ways to work around it, such as attaching the Module Grid to the player instead of the armour and having the armour expand it like an inventory. Maybe the item is just crafted and any Modules are moved to the finished product (if possible).

Of course you could just as easily ignore it altogether, if you're crafting your armour into the next tier you're going to notice pretty quickly that you forgot to remove the modules so can just reload a save.
Money might be the root of all evil, but ignorance is the heart.

Pascali
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by Pascali » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:42 pm

Is it a new feature, that you get on dead only a wood-chest instead your lost inventar-items? Or is it a bug?
Last edited by Pascali on Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Lubricus
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:13 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by Lubricus » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:49 pm

Recycling could be an alternative to upgrading stuff. If you get 50% of the ingredients back in a recycler you have some use for outdated machines and you can't make a mater replicator with an assembler with modules and a recycler (in vanilla).

foodfactorio
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:56 am
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by foodfactorio » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:59 am

Sander_Bouwhuis wrote:I'm a big fan of the possibility to recycle everything. It gives me a 'good' feeling that the junk/waste is being put to good use. Admittedly, I don't need the resources, but it does play well when you are role playing an environmentally aware alien.
Is there a recycling mod around that anyone know of?
hi the reverse factory mod is quite good.
there are some things it cant recyle, but im still figuring things out with multiple mods.
(also me from the mod portal - im not dustine lol) = https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Dustine/ ... ssion/9108
my 1st Mod Idea :) viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50256

Sander_Bouwhuis
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:45 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by Sander_Bouwhuis » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:21 pm

foodfactorio wrote:
Sander_Bouwhuis wrote:I'm a big fan of the possibility to recycle everything. It gives me a 'good' feeling that the junk/waste is being put to good use. Admittedly, I don't need the resources, but it does play well when you are role playing an environmentally aware alien.
Is there a recycling mod around that anyone know of?
hi the reverse factory mod is quite good.
there are some things it cant recyle, but im still figuring things out with multiple mods.
Ok, thanks for informing us. I'll check it out.

User avatar
bobingabout
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 6676
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 1:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Version 0.16.27

Post by bobingabout » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:49 am

Merssedes wrote:IMHO, if you warry about items in armor grid, just disallow usage of armor with any items in grid for crafting.
Want to use for crafting -- clear it's grid. If i'm corrent, there is currently no way to place items in armor grid other then by hand or script.
That's something that the game itself has to control, not the mod.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

Post Reply

Return to “Releases”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mtfreitasf