Version 0.16.24

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impetus maximus
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by impetus maximus » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:07 am

eradicator wrote:If you want to see an example of how fingerprinting via something like "list of installed mods (==browser addons)" + a few other minor data points works go to https://panopticlick.eff.org/ , do the test and click "show fingerprint info" at the end.

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canvas.poisondata true

Aeternus
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Aeternus » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:16 am

About the crashlogs: It really should be changed to a "if not defined, pop up a request to the user to opt in or opt out and remember the setting". For legalese reasons: Crashlogs are not fully anonymous. This could conflict with privacy laws, especially in the EU.

It contains information about
- Hardware environment information (CPU/Memory/GPU etc)
- Your operating system and some driver information
- The installation path for Factorio
- Read and write data paths which usually contain the username of the person playing factorio (this is personally identifyable in many cases, and will become more so with MickeySoft moving to windows-as-a-service where username will be linked to microsoft account)
- A bunch of application specific tracing and debug info on various threads

Linnun
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Linnun » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:38 am

I personally am totally fine with opt-out, but please be aware that opt-out mechanics of this kind are illegal in some countries for privacy concerns.

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DarkyPupu
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by DarkyPupu » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:06 pm

I'm perfectly fine with the opt-out. There are other things to be more paranoid about than Factorio dev team...

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by TheTom » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:27 pm

Actually there are not in the EU. THere is a new law going into effect that basically is BRUTAL on privacy - you can loose 4.5% or s of your turnover for a violation. THat is complete company turnover. Every customer I have is basically going through their software with a legal team to avoid violations.

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eradicator
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by eradicator » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:13 pm

impetus maximus wrote:
eradicator wrote:If you want to see an example of how fingerprinting via something like "list of installed mods (==browser addons)" + a few other minor data points works go to https://panopticlick.eff.org/ , do the test and click "show fingerprint info" at the end.

about:config
canvas.poisondata true
Wasn't on my list yet, and google doesn't really find anything useful, or is this only in pale moon? The fact that such a setting exists in the first place says a lot though :/.

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by VFaalcatnodriiro » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:13 pm

hm.... as long as it's only in experimental, "Opt-out" is fine.
But when you go stable with the version, it might be better to let users Opt-in :)

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impetus maximus
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by impetus maximus » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:29 pm

eradicator wrote:Wasn't on my list yet, and google doesn't really find anything useful, or is this only in pale moon? The fact that such a setting exists in the first place says a lot though :/.
it's in Pale Moon, not sure about Firefox.

<back on topic>

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by someone1337 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:31 pm

FactorioBot wrote:Minor Features
  • When the game crashes, the crash log is uploaded to us. You can opt out by disabling it in the options menu.
Unless you remove all paths, mod lists and hardware/software information, accidentally collected information and dont store IP adresses, this will be illegal in the EU with Mai 2018...
(Imho there is no way to anonymize a crash dump so that it wont be illegal to automatically collect it AND still be useful)

Make it opt in or get rid of this again.

@Everyone who writes a variation of
I'm perfectly fine with the opt-out... i have nothing to hide...
Doesnt matter. The law is not - and thats a good thing.
Also if you have nothing to hide: post a dump of all your SMS, eMails, ... online and link it here/send me a PM with the link.

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DarkyPupu
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by DarkyPupu » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:26 pm

I think there are a lot of phantasms about the EU law, it's about personal data and only the full path could be considered like some. Fingerprinting is absolutely not personal data, it's a way to track people we can agree or not, but it's not disallowed. And Factorio devs never showed any intent to fingerprint the anonymous crash dumps (what for, anyway...)

Anyway, the most reasonable thing to do would be a popup about consent, i guess it'd make most people happy.

Thanks for the patches anyway :)

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Light » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:53 am

bobingabout wrote:
DRY411S wrote:Although the logs will not (I hope) contain PII data, the EU General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) effective May 2018 are being interpreted by most organisations that I work with, such that people must opt-in to permit data to be collected about them.
Windows 10, you can't even opt out of it's data collection. and the default is to send everything to Microsoft, including all keystrokes.

So, in theory, this opt-in, opt-out paranoia is moot anyway, because you're already sending all your information if you use windows 10.
Entirely false.
Services and group policies can be changed to deal with stuff such as this. For the computer novice there are always simple programs made by privacy conscious developers that you can use to make the changes for you, and even reapply the settings should they be changed in any windows update without notification.

There has and always will be a way to protect your privacy if you're paying any mind to such matters. Don't ever shrug off something as being acceptable just because you expect companies to do it anyway.

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Optera » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:49 am

eradicator wrote:
FactorioBot wrote: Scripting
  • Added script.on_nth_tick(n, function).
The long awaited end of the modulo era :D. It's still missing in the api documentation though (for people to find that don't read all the changelogs...).
Is It really?
http://lua-api.factorio.com/latest/LuaB ... n_nth_tick
I understood the documentation that it will run once on tick(s) n.

Sure it would be possible to re-register inside the function for the next n, but it's still not a true run every nth tick.
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Merssedes
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Merssedes » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:36 am

Can somebody post config line to opt-out of sending crash reports?

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DarkyPupu
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by DarkyPupu » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:33 am

Merssedes wrote:Can somebody post config line to opt-out of sending crash reports?
To disable it, in config.ini :

Section [other]

Code: Select all

; Options: true, false
enable-crash-log-uploading=false
Don't forget to remove the ; if you edit it by hand.

It's in the other options in the game, also.

someone1337
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by someone1337 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:29 pm

DarkyPupu wrote:I think there are a lot of phantasms about the EU law, it's about personal data and only the full path could be considered like some.
This is plain wrong.
If you upload something which contains data that can be fingerprinted to a person, that upload has to be considered personal data.
Once its uploaded from a static or pseudo-static IP you have specific mapping of personal data to a person, making the law applicable.
DarkyPupu wrote:And Factorio devs never showed any intent to fingerprint the anonymous crash dumps (what for, anyway...)
Again: This doesnt matter - the law doesnt care about intent.

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Loewchen » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:47 pm

I believe there is a general misunderstanding what and how the GDPR will regulate regarding collection and utilization of personal data. In my understanding, personal information must only be freely given (opt in) if no other lawful reasons for its collection apply.

Other lawful reasons include for example:
Legitimate interests: A private organisation has a genuine and legitimate reason to process personal data without consent, provided it is not outweighed by negative effects to the individual’s rights and freedoms.
There are several other reasons, but I would think this already applies in case of the log file collection.
Other limitations (e.g. only for its purpose necessary data can be collected, data must be protected against unlawful utilization, data must be deleted once no longer needed...) still apply obviously.

PS.: I am not a lawyer and I do not know it what form the log file is collected.

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Supercheese » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:28 pm

Optera wrote:
The long awaited end of the modulo era :D. It's still missing in the api documentation though (for people to find that don't read all the changelogs...).
Is It really?
http://lua-api.factorio.com/latest/LuaB ... n_nth_tick
I understood the documentation that it will run once on tick(s) n.

Sure it would be possible to re-register inside the function for the next n, but it's still not a true run every nth tick.
No, it runs repeatedly every nth tick. It's pretty much a direct replacement for what used to be:

Code: Select all

if current_tick % n == 0 then

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by namek » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:39 pm

Dear devs, what are You thinking adding auto upload log function? Please make it Opt - In, don't follow the worst examples...Jeez
Diagonal Factorio
Can't download a mod from mods.factorio.com ? or want to mirror it somewhere else? I'll upload somewhere or directly send them to You.

Resistance.

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Oktokolo » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:30 pm

Anonymizing logs is pretty hard to get right if you still want them to contain enough information for helping in finding bugs. something as harmless ass the list of mods might already be pretty unique for some players.

I recommend opt in for automatic sending of logs and a consent dialog on crash if the player did not already opt in.
The commonly seen consent dialogs, one experiences in almost every software that sends logs to the devs, got implemented for a (legal) reason.


Thanks for on_nth_tick. The documentation should state, whether the function is executed every nth tick or only once after n ticks though.
In both cases it is a usefull addition to the tool set removing the need to implement our own task managers.

milo christiansen
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by milo christiansen » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:33 am

Honestly.

"Oh no, they may know my mod list! Maybe even my PC username! It's the end of the world!"

Go have hysterics about something worth worrying about.

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