Version 0.16.18

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FactorioBot
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Version 0.16.18

Post by FactorioBot »

Bugfixes
  • Fixed searching for recipes could add the "no recipe available" message multiple times. (56966)
  • Fixed a crash related to biters. (56932)
  • Fixed that setting locked = true on choose-elem-buttons through the mod API would still let the button be cleared. (56915)
  • Fixed logistic entity highlighting didn't work correctly in some cases. (56942)
  • Fixed that the map editor could get stuck if you built out-of-map tiles directly in the center of the screen. (56953)
  • Fixed Linux runtime requirements being dynamically linked. (56922)
  • Fixed (hopefully) macOS crash on startup due to 10.9 compatibility fix. (56929)
Use the automatic updater if you can (check experimental updates in other settings) or download full installation at http://www.factorio.com/download/experimental.

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Gergely
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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Gergely »

Make loaders craftable! Make belts better than bots!

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Immun »

huh....you just saved my day. sitting home and wanted to put factorio away until the biter bug is fixed...now no reason anymore :D
great work!

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by GottZ »

it accidentially also fixed a segfault that was appearing in 0.16.17 when launching headless on linux.
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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by DanGio »

you guys <3

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by GottZ »

Gergely wrote:Make loaders craftable! Make belts better than bots!
if they become craftable i'd say they should be more expensive than they are right now.
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Ghoulish
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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Ghoulish »

Thank you for the updates :) It's really pleasing and cool to see how fast you churn them out.

Pretty please with sugar on top.. would you please fix the lighting bug viewtopic.php?f=182&t=54850&p=336065#p336065 I know it's not a crash or a major issue, I (we?!) All appreciate this, but it's a real big annoyance :cry:
See the daily™ struggles with my Factory! :D https://www.twitch.tv/repetitivebeats

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Tekky »

Ghoulish wrote:Pretty please with sugar on top.. would you please fix the lighting bug viewtopic.php?f=182&t=54850&p=336065#p336065 I know it's not a crash or a major issue, I (we?!) All appreciate this, but it's a real big annoyance :cry:
That bug report is assigned to the Factorio developer Twinsen, who is, according to the latest FFF, at a gaming convention in Taiwan in order to present Factorio. I'm afraid that you will have to wait until he is back.

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Lubricus »

Gergely wrote:Make loaders craftable! Make belts better than bots!
Don't make belts as boring as bots, thanks.

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Ghoulish »

Tekky wrote:
Ghoulish wrote:Pretty please with sugar on top.. would you please fix the lighting bug viewtopic.php?f=182&t=54850&p=336065#p336065 I know it's not a crash or a major issue, I (we?!) All appreciate this, but it's a real big annoyance :cry:
That bug report is assigned to the Factorio developer Twinsen, who is, according to the latest FFF, at a gaming convention in Taiwan in order to present Factorio. I'm afraid that you will have to wait until he is back.
Aww! Hurry back :) Thanks for the update!
See the daily™ struggles with my Factory! :D https://www.twitch.tv/repetitivebeats

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Gergely
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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Gergely »

Lubricus wrote:
Gergely wrote:Make loaders craftable! Make belts better than bots!
Don't make belts as boring as bots, thanks.
Really? The only way to currently move items to/from belts are inserters, and mining drills that spit out their content. Just like splitters and their recent additions, loaders would not make all inserters obsolete. Loaders would only replace inserters in storage management, and train logistics. Inserters would still work the best in assembly machine/furnace lines.

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Philip017 »

Gergely wrote:Make loaders craftable! Make belts better than bots!
YES make loaders craftable, also the belt immunity equipment.

both of these will make belt life better.

but to prevent loaders from being used everywhere and makeing it more boring, they should be much more expensive to craft (the loaders mod by optera could be used as an example of expensive loaders, maybe make them even more expensive), and drink huge amounts of power, i was thinking 500kw each (on express loaders, lower tier loaders can use less) with that as a constant drain instead of bumping power on movement like inserters do. thus adding convenience for areas where loaders would be very useful, like train unloading, but not economical for general use like on assembly machines.

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Lubricus
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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Lubricus »

Gergely wrote:
Lubricus wrote:
Gergely wrote:Make loaders craftable! Make belts better than bots!
Don't make belts as boring as bots, thanks.
Really? The only way to currently move items to/from belts are inserters, and mining drills that spit out their content. Just like splitters and their recent additions, loaders would not make all inserters obsolete. Loaders would only replace inserters in storage management, and train logistics. Inserters would still work the best in assembly machine/furnace lines.
I think it is a risk that we remove more game mechanics than we ad with super priority filter splitters, Inserters that automatically compress belts and loaders. Belts and inserters are beautiful as they are know with the inserters having rotating and elongating speed and have to reach and fetch to the exact position where the items are on the belt. To fully understand it you have to carefully watch the inserters and the things on the belts move around and think, and there is subtle way to slightly increase the performance. With loaders it's just put down the non animated thing and everything goes into the box with no complications.
Unloading trains to belts is a thing you can tinker with for hours of fun that just would disappear and get trivialized with loaders. So be careful with what you wish. What is a fun problem for us players to solve and what is a problem for the developers to fix.

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Gergely
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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Gergely »

Lubricus wrote:With loaders it's just put down the non animated thing and everything goes into the box with no complications.
Not animated thing? I bet they will add some animations IF they want to make it a feature. (Also: Buffering train stations would be much less space efficient with loaders than with inserters) I am aware about the developer's philosophy about game design. I read most of the blog posts. The argument that the loader might be a "death spell" just like bots is clear to me. So is the fact that it would still buff belts, and belts only, and add more variety. Loaders do make some Inserter setups obsolete. So do the newly added filter splitters.

EDIT: They are first mentioned here: fff-128 Along with pros, and cons. It's worst drawback, is the fact that it makes a lot of belt balancers obsolete. That can be solved by making loaders a late, post-express belt (and possibly space tech )research, and distancing the three belt tiers for it drastically both research and crafting cost wise. It makes a lot of belt balancers obsolete. But belt balancers (that is, balancing the two rows on belts) are (I believe) only relevant in early-mid game. Most late game factories treat both sides of express belts equally unless they are used to transport different things.

Next reply to loaders here, and I will start a new topic in general discussions because... we are currently not in the right place for discussing loaders.
Last edited by Gergely on Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:08 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Oktokolo »

Loaders should come in same tiers as belts and be restricted to loading from/to belts, chests and wagons. They would increse the maximum speed of belt-based train stations to that of bot-based designs and make single-chest buffers usable.

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by bartekltg »

@belt buff.
-Is the idea to 'discretize' belts still under consideration?
This means that object can be placed only in a set of points/nodes on the belt,
and these points are every x, where x is the minimal possible distance between objects on belts. This will cause that if there is empty space on the belt, an inserter can put an object into it.
The only (minor) problem would be that to avoid waiting for a belt's node on an empty belt (thus reducing throughput), the speed of the belt and the speed of inserter have to be synchronized. [On the other hand - if is not, faster belts would make for unloading (for example from chest to an empty belt) a bit faster.]

-Did someone solve the 'turning bucket belt' problem?
There was an idea to make the second kind of belts, by making them 'deep', a segment (one square) of a belt is a 'bucket' that work as chest (almost, not a stack
but a fixed number of items of one type). There is a nice tradeoff between them, the 'bucket' one has higher throughput and works with inserter stack bonus, but do not have two sides.
But, as far as I know, no one had an idea how to draw it on turns.

Or we can put "buckets/special chest on normal belts, usa them as above, and then have to pick the buckets up and transport them back;-)

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by PacifyerGrey »

Thanks for quick fixes guys!

As for loaders I still find a storage like 3x3 size with built in loafers much like Klonan’s Belt buffer but with big storage to be more appropriate in the game then loaders as they would simplify loading/unloading and different transitions and will not make inserters obsolete

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by ampera »

Can I download and apply the 0.16.18 patch manually on Linux? I don't want to download 750MB if I don't have to (seems impolite to your hardworking servers) and I cannot start the game to have it update automatically.

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by Jürgen Erhard »

Whee… this disabled the Avatars mod (and in turn, Vehicle Grid and Additional Turrets, but they can be enabled when Avatars is disabled). Because this one introduced a requirement for braking force being positive (and I guess it doesn't consider braking_power = "0W" as positive). Avatars uses a car for a building since there doesn't seem to be any other way to make an enterable structure?

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Re: Version 0.16.18

Post by bobingabout »

GottZ wrote:
Gergely wrote:Make loaders craftable! Make belts better than bots!
if they become craftable i'd say they should be more expensive than they are right now.
This again? :P

I actually agree with this. If you look at a lot of the Bot vs Belt FFF pictures, there are loaders in their setups. IMO, Loaders should be a base game thing. I also had a bunch of other suggestions that in combination would help the situation.

The other sugestions include Stack inserters should be able to add stacks to belts, and a higher tier belt and inserters is a good idea.
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