Page 3 of 3
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:43 pm
by BlackKnight
PacifyerGrey wrote:I think this should be a separate technology and should apply to both splitters and inserters enabling this functionality on all existing items effectively removing filter inserters as a separate entity.
I fully agree. Now that
splitters can be both
normal and filtered, that really puts into question why not make
standard inserters configurable as well? -- eliminating the redundancy, freeing extra space required in inventory, crafting menu etc etc - 7 Inserters now become 5..
Inserters (most/all types?) would gain these abilities via tech upgrades as one would expect.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:11 am
by mh_
James K wrote:Can inserters now fully compress a belt? Or is that meant for a future update?
I hope this will never be re-introduced. There are mechanics for that in the game, use them.
Oktokolo wrote:Koub wrote:I think splitters should gain their filtering abilities with Circuit network technology. I know it's early in the research tree, but it would totally make sense.
Yes. Splitters and the long, fast and stack inserters should become smart with research of the circuit tech or seperate research depending on the circuit tech. Filter inserters and their stack equivalent could then be dropped.
One thing, Bob's does incredibly well is the inserter pickup and drop location selection. So maybe, the long handed could also be dropped in favor of adding variable reach capabilities to the other ones.
Lane seperation capabilities in splitters would be another thing, that would make belt-based designs less tedious. But there are posts from the devs that oppose the idea to make using underneathies for lane splitting obsolete.
There are ingame-mechanics for lane separation that are trivial to get. This would make splitters do something that they were not really doing up to now, at least IMHO, i understand the other view here.
BlackKnight wrote:PacifyerGrey wrote:I think this should be a separate technology and should apply to both splitters and inserters enabling this functionality on all existing items effectively removing filter inserters as a separate entity.
I fully agree. Now that
splitters can be both
normal and filtered, that really puts into question why not make
standard inserters configurable as well? -- eliminating the redundancy, freeing extra space required in inventory, crafting menu etc etc - 7 Inserters now become 5..
Inserters (most/all types?) would gain these abilities via tech upgrades as one would expect.
These splitters are a HUGE buff in belts vs bots. Well done devs! However I agree that without research it seems way to easy. Please do a "smart splitters" research for enabling them (just as with the stack-sizes). Could remove smart inserters.
Koub wrote:I think splitters should gain their filtering abilities with Circuit network technology. I know it's early in the research tree, but it would totally make sense.
Totally makes sense. We could even file a bug report for that.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:58 am
by xng
mh_ wrote:James K wrote:Can inserters now fully compress a belt? Or is that meant for a future update?
I hope this will never be re-introduced. There are mechanics for that in the game, use them.
What mechanics are you talking about that makes inserters be able to fully compress a belt, except for tick counting hacks?
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:21 am
by Cyan_Leader
I think he meant that the game has mechanics for belt compression, such as fusing two lanes with a splitter, not that inserters could do it.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:46 am
by impetus maximus
FactorioBot wrote:
Minor Features
- Added PvP options: Spectator fog of war, starting chests, chest item multiplier, team areas turrets, automatic round time, and base exclusion time.
how does one find/use these options?
legogo29 wrote:
This one does the same, but has the output in the same direction as the input
correct. that is a good one too. welcome to the forums legogo29.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:43 pm
by mh_
xng wrote:mh_ wrote:James K wrote:Can inserters now fully compress a belt? Or is that meant for a future update?
I hope this will never be re-introduced. There are mechanics for that in the game, use them.
What mechanics are you talking about that makes inserters be able to fully compress a belt, except for tick counting hacks?
For example with furnaces, do not do 48 inserters in a row, since loss of compression is expected (without circuit magic as you suggested). Just do rows of 12 or 18 and do more of them, joining them afterwards.
Same goes for every other item. Here a layout for green circuits that just outputs to a dedicated belt for each assembler and joins those to the output via splitters. Perfect, no counter-intuitive and perfermance eating inserter-compression needed. And also perfectly (lane-)balanced by design.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:17 pm
by taikodragon
mh_ wrote:xng wrote:mh_ wrote:James K wrote:Can inserters now fully compress a belt? Or is that meant for a future update?
I hope this will never be re-introduced. There are mechanics for that in the game, use them.
What mechanics are you talking about that makes inserters be able to fully compress a belt, except for tick counting hacks?
For example with furnaces, do not do 48 inserters in a row, since loss of compression is expected (without circuit magic as you suggested). Just do rows of 12 or 18 and do more of them, joining them afterwards.
Same goes for every other item. Here a layout for green circuits that just outputs to a dedicated belt for each assembler and joins those to the output via splitters. Perfect, no counter-intuitive and perfermance eating inserter-compression needed. And also perfectly (lane-)balanced by design.
I think the point is that calculating the number of assemblers per row to output a fully compressed belt from that row is straightforward, but with inserters unable to fully compress belts, you have to tease out how many assemblers/furnaces you can output from before the inserters won't be able to add the item to the belt even through it's not full which is obtuse and unrelated to the items per second of a belt or the speed of the assemblers/furnaces.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:34 pm
by Zavian
taikodragon wrote:I think the point is that calculating the number of assemblers per row to output a fully compressed belt from that row is straightforward, but with inserters unable to fully compress belts, you have to tease out how many assemblers/furnaces you can output from before the inserters won't be able to add the item to the belt even through it's not full which is obtuse and unrelated to the items per second of a belt or the speed of the assemblers/furnaces.
If you know how many assemblers to fill a belt, then you can easily just halve it, and then merge the belts by splitter.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:33 am
by James K
Mostly, its just that I'd like to know where we stand for 0.16 at least. My current smelter blueprints use underground belt compression, which no longer works (which makes sense, it was always silly) so I need to design a new set-up. But the devs have mentioned that they were planning to alter belt compression further and I don't want to redesign my set-up, only to have to redesign it again a version or two from now.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:09 am
by Oktokolo
James K wrote:Mostly, its just that I'd like to know where we stand for 0.16 at least. My current smelter blueprints use underground belt compression, which no longer works (which makes sense, it was always silly) so I need to design a new set-up. But the devs have mentioned that they were planning to alter belt compression further and I don't want to redesign my set-up, only to have to redesign it again a version or two from now.
I recently started a new book of smelting columns using the splitter merge to achieve belt compression. It is yellow belt based. Just build as much as you need and splitter merge to your currently unlocked belt tier.
Code: Select all
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
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:28 am
by James K
Oktokolo wrote:James K wrote:Mostly, its just that I'd like to know where we stand for 0.16 at least. My current smelter blueprints use underground belt compression, which no longer works (which makes sense, it was always silly) so I need to design a new set-up. But the devs have mentioned that they were planning to alter belt compression further and I don't want to redesign my set-up, only to have to redesign it again a version or two from now.
I recently started a new book of smelting columns using the splitter merge to achieve belt compression. It is yellow belt based. Just build as much as you need and splitter merge to your currently unlocked belt tier.
That's a nice set-up, thanks for posting it. Unfortunately, changing the set-up still feels futile to me so long as I know native compression is still in the works. Ideally, the devs will either change the belt logic so inserters can fully compress it, or say they're not planning to do that in 0.16 at least. That way, I can make plans without feeling like they could become obsolete any minute.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:25 pm
by mh_
James K wrote:Oktokolo wrote:James K wrote:Mostly, its just that I'd like to know where we stand for 0.16 at least. My current smelter blueprints use underground belt compression, which no longer works (which makes sense, it was always silly) so I need to design a new set-up. But the devs have mentioned that they were planning to alter belt compression further and I don't want to redesign my set-up, only to have to redesign it again a version or two from now.
I recently started a new book of smelting columns using the splitter merge to achieve belt compression. It is yellow belt based. Just build as much as you need and splitter merge to your currently unlocked belt tier.
That's a nice set-up, thanks for posting it. Unfortunately, changing the set-up still feels futile to me so long as I know native compression is still in the works. Ideally, the devs will either change the belt logic so inserters can fully compress it, or say they're not planning to do that in 0.16 at least. That way, I can make plans without feeling like they could become obsolete any minute.
Where do you get this "native compression is still in the works" from? With the priority splitters there is not even the slightest benefit from changing that, more so when considering all the work needed. I don't think any of the devs want the shitty old "just drop that on undergrounds" back. It is true however, that the sideloading and the item-creep bugs that also affect compression are still open.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:52 pm
by Oktokolo
James K wrote:Unfortunately, changing the set-up still feels futile to me so long as I know native compression is still in the works. Ideally, the devs will either change the belt logic so inserters can fully compress it, or say they're not planning to do that in 0.16 at least. That way, I can make plans without feeling like they could become obsolete any minute.
I am prretty sure, that my setups will not get uncompressed with the next updates. All you have to fear is a line of yellow belts becomming redundant. But yellow belts are cheap anyway and the symmetric setup will keep looking good even if they make inserters auto-compress. I expect them to make side loading compress the lane instead though.
Re: Version 0.16.17
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:03 am
by Tricorius
Oktokolo wrote:James K wrote:Unfortunately, changing the set-up still feels futile to me so long as I know native compression is still in the works. Ideally, the devs will either change the belt logic so inserters can fully compress it, or say they're not planning to do that in 0.16 at least. That way, I can make plans without feeling like they could become obsolete any minute.
I am prretty sure, that my setups will not get uncompressed with the next updates. All you have to fear is a line of yellow belts becomming redundant. But yellow belts are cheap anyway and the symmetric setup will keep looking good even if they make inserters auto-compress. I expect them to make side loading compress the lane instead though.
This is my expectation as well, if they decide to add it back in. And the animations of the items bumping stuff around when the side load merges could be pretty spiffy. I see the items on the side loaded belt kinda “jostling” items on the main belt forward and backward to make space.