Factorio Forums

FalcoGer wrote: A wagon full of barrels should never be more than a wagon full of liquid.
Generally barrels need some reworking, they allow more throughput in a yellow belts than with pipes, they allow higher quantity per area, they allow to transport more in trains with less wagons. And they allow partitioned transportation of up to 40 different fluids per wagon.
So basically except for the one time effort of making barrels and putting up the emptying and filling machines, barrels are now, again, better than tanker wagons in every way.

Most of the imbalance in fluid wagon vs cargo wagon and belted barrels vs pipes stems from barrels holding too much liquid while stacking too high.
To be balanced barrels should hold at most 50l when keeping stack size at 10. Barreling should fill/empty 5 or 10 barrels per recipe.

If barrels are nerfed though, I wonder what will happen with those huge nuclear power plants that needed huge throughput of water provided through belts.

Avezo wrote:If barrels are nerfed though, I wonder what will happen with those huge nuclear power plants that needed huge throughput of water provided through belts.

This is my major concern. But this is only divised by 2 right ? So just need to double the belts

Gnark wrote:This is my major concern. But this is only divised by 2 right ?

I'm afraid not, it's currently a whopping 250.

FactorioBot wrote:

• Removed the mechanics of 3 different fluid tanks in fluid wagon, and simplified it so the fluid wagon has just 1 fluid.

I had used one single wagon to transport crude oil to the refinery. Afterwards the same wagon transported the three different outputs to my main base in a single wagon. That worked perfectly fine!

Please re-add this feature!

ManaUser wrote:

Gnark wrote:This is my major concern. But this is only divised by 2 right ?

I'm afraid not, it's currently a whopping 250.

Then i am really desapointed
This is a divide by 5.
This negate all interest in barreling. Now a blue belt of barrels have a 10k output but you need 2 blue belt, one for the barrel full and one for the empty. Pipe have a 1.2k output so 2 pipe for my 2 blue line will have a 2.4k output so 0.4 more than with barreling.
They will need a huge advantage for beein transported by train to be used, what will be the storage of the futur tanker ? This will be really low ...

I tought than a 25k for full tanker wagon and 50k for a full barrel wagon would be good. Wihtout logic barrel wagon are just half full so this is in line with the tanker and with logic it double ... fair enough. The divide by two make also the 2 blue line have an output of aprox 5 pipe, this seems good to me.

Barrel are really interresting but hard to manage ... they need love.

For storage purpose 50l barrels still beat tanks by a factor of 8.64.
1 Storage Tank takes 3x3 space and holds 25kL
9 steel chests hold 48*9*50*10 = 216kL

However for trains this equation changes to barrels being 3.75 times less efficient than fluid wagons.
1 fluid wagon holds currently 75kL
1 cargo wagon holds 40*50*10 = 20kL

Overall these numbers make barrels still useful for long term storage and transport via bots, though fluid wagons really should be brought down to 20 or 25kL.

Optera wrote:However for trains this equation changes to barrels being 3.75 times less efficient than fluid wagons.
1 fluid wagon holds currently 75kL
1 cargo wagon holds 40*50*10 = 20kL

As far as i had understood kovarex, the fluid waggon capacity WILL be decreased to 25kL

Overall these numbers make barrels still useful for long term storage and transport via bots, though fluid wagons really should be brought down to 20 or 25kL.

The advantage of barrel-transport in future is the fact you can transport different fluids with one waggon. I think that's pretty fair...

Greetings Ronny

Optera wrote:...
Overall these numbers make barrels still useful for long term storage and transport via bots, though fluid wagons really should be brought down to 20 or 25kL.

What is the point of long term storage ?
If you need long terme storage your design is not good enough. Exept for energy ?

rldml wrote:

Optera wrote:

Overall these numbers make barrels still useful for long term storage and transport via bots, though fluid wagons really should be brought down to 20 or 25kL.

The advantage of barrel-transport in future is the fact you can transport different fluids with one waggon. I think that's pretty fair...

Greetings Ronny

In 1000 hours of game I have never needed sutch a train ... barreling is just good to feed military outpost with light oil in the same wagon than munition if you are using fire turet. But there is no big need.

rather than shrinking the size of the barrels would reducing the stacking not be an alternative option.

It's change the dynamics of storage/train based transport without affecting belts/inserters

I think reduction of stacking of barrels (even down to just 1) would be better too.

Remember it's not just about fluid wagon vs. cargo wagon, but also about fluids carried by bots in barrels.

Avezo wrote:I think reduction of stacking of barrels (even down to just 1) would be better too.

Remember it's not just about fluid wagon vs. cargo wagon, but also about fluids carried by bots in barrels.

Exactly, this is why reduction of stacking won't work as robots would still carry too much.

kovarex wrote:

Avezo wrote:I think reduction of stacking of barrels (even down to just 1) would be better too.

Remember it's not just about fluid wagon vs. cargo wagon, but also about fluids carried by bots in barrels.

Exactly, this is why reduction of stacking won't work as robots would still carry too much.

How about 5 stack size and 100 fluids per barrel like I proposed? That seems to be a good middle ground.