Version 0.15.10

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ZlovreD
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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by ZlovreD »

MasterBuilder wrote:
ZlovreD wrote:
ZlovreD wrote:It's strange.. all non vanilla entities with pipes can't be rotated to up and right direction.
Another hidden changes in prototipes ?
Indeed...

Code: Select all

two_direction_only = true
In Storage-Tank prototype...
That was because of this.

"I've changed storage tanks so they always build in north or east directions."

EDIT: It's in the changelog too "Fixed that storage tanks used 4 directions although visually only showed 2 so they would conflict in blueprints."
Ok.. Now i know what i would do next 4-5 hours - "check and rotate" dozens or hundreds storage-tank based prototypes entities around whole map. Just right after i temporary fix those prototypes by myself.
In additional this is becouse of [two_direction_only=TRUE] by default even if that option is missing!!
Is a bright example how just one string/option can ruin whole gameplay.

Upd:
Or wait..
If i fix it and then load save before patch, then...
Hope so.

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Killcreek2
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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by Killcreek2 »

MeduSalem wrote:
kinnom wrote:Does this mean that using preheated steam from boilers in heat exchangers doesn't work anymore?
I'm in the process of testing it...

[Edit]
Nope, it's broken. Doesn't work anymore due to fluid collision problems as I expected. My entire power plant is wrecked.
Confirmed: Heat ex only accept cold water now.
This change a bit of a let down as the pre-heated steam setup was awesome & a fun challenge to build. Would be great if the heat ex accepted water OR 165 degree steam, even if each fluid had to be actively pumped in at different ends to avoid collisions.

Ahh well, time to rip up & redesign the nuclear plant. Still loving 0.15 overall. (b'-')b
"Functional simplicity, structural complexity." ~ Appleseed

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redlabel
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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by redlabel »

All hail the devs!
✧COMFY FACTORIO✧ - Home of Biter Battles, Fish Defense, Chronotrain.. And More!

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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by boro »

I get this error after downloading : Error opening update package: File E:/games/Factorio/data/../doc-html/Classes.html not found

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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by Rseding91 »

ZlovreD wrote:
MasterBuilder wrote:
ZlovreD wrote:
ZlovreD wrote:It's strange.. all non vanilla entities with pipes can't be rotated to up and right direction.
Another hidden changes in prototipes ?
Indeed...

Code: Select all

two_direction_only = true
In Storage-Tank prototype...
That was because of this.

"I've changed storage tanks so they always build in north or east directions."

EDIT: It's in the changelog too "Fixed that storage tanks used 4 directions although visually only showed 2 so they would conflict in blueprints."
Ok.. Now i know what i would do next 4-5 hours - "check and rotate" dozens or hundreds storage-tank based prototypes entities around whole map. Just right after i temporary fix those prototypes by myself.
In additional this is becouse of [two_direction_only=TRUE] by default even if that option is missing!!
Is a bright example how just one string/option can ruin whole gameplay.

Upd:
Or wait..
If i fix it and then load save before patch, then...
Hope so.
Sorry about that. It wasn't meant to be true by default (which is why I put it in the prototype). I guess I forgot to change the default to false after adding the lua prototype value. In 0.15.11 it will be false by default.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

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bobingabout
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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by bobingabout »

Rseding91 wrote:
ZlovreD wrote:
MasterBuilder wrote:
ZlovreD wrote:
ZlovreD wrote:It's strange.. all non vanilla entities with pipes can't be rotated to up and right direction.
Another hidden changes in prototipes ?
Indeed...

Code: Select all

two_direction_only = true
In Storage-Tank prototype...
That was because of this.

"I've changed storage tanks so they always build in north or east directions."

EDIT: It's in the changelog too "Fixed that storage tanks used 4 directions although visually only showed 2 so they would conflict in blueprints."
Ok.. Now i know what i would do next 4-5 hours - "check and rotate" dozens or hundreds storage-tank based prototypes entities around whole map. Just right after i temporary fix those prototypes by myself.
In additional this is becouse of [two_direction_only=TRUE] by default even if that option is missing!!
Is a bright example how just one string/option can ruin whole gameplay.

Upd:
Or wait..
If i fix it and then load save before patch, then...
Hope so.
Sorry about that. It wasn't meant to be true by default (which is why I put it in the prototype). I guess I forgot to change the default to false after adding the lua prototype value. In 0.15.11 it will be false by default.
YOU BROKE MY VAVLES!!! AGAIN!!! After forcing me to change them from type="underground_pipe"
The update also broke my power mod, but, I'm indifferent about that being a bad thing.

you love making more work for me, don't you? :P
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I also have a Patreon.

mazetar
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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by mazetar »

Added rail block debug visualization.
Nice!

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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by Spuds »

MeduSalem wrote:
kinnom wrote: Well... fuck it.

On a side note that's it, that's all the disappointments I can take for a major version. See you guys around 0.16.
perhaps you shouldn't bitch about changes in an EXPERIMENTAL BRANCH changing. that's part of expirementing.. I predict 0.16 experimental will have other changes that'll get you in an uproar (not that I know what any of them are, other than 2nd post in this thread)

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bobingabout
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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by bobingabout »

Spuds wrote:
MeduSalem wrote:
kinnom wrote: Well... fuck it.

On a side note that's it, that's all the disappointments I can take for a major version. See you guys around 0.16.
perhaps you shouldn't bitch about changes in an EXPERIMENTAL BRANCH changing. that's part of expirementing.. I predict 0.16 experimental will have other changes that'll get you in an uproar (not that I know what any of them are, other than 2nd post in this thread)
Indeed, instead of moaning about changes in an "Experimental" release, I mean, it's called Experimental for a reason, it means "Expect bugs and changes to happen", ahem, instead of moaning about that, and saying you'll wait for 0.16, yes, do as mr potato just said, and wait for 0.15 STABLE!


Still can't have grids on fluid wagons though.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.
I also have a Patreon.

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Klonan
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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by Klonan »

bobingabout wrote:The update also broke my power mod, but, I'm indifferent about that being a bad thing.

you love making more work for me, don't you? :P
Sorry for breaking it all when you just got it working... but we need to keep you on your toes :)

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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by Vyrasa »

Is the removal/breaking of preheated steam (boiler+heater combo) a bug that attempts will be made to fix, or an intended mechanics change?

I enjoyed the extra complexity of having to manage the hybrid power setup, even though straight nuclear is the more efficient option for me (fuel availability vs consumption rate). Would be nice to know if I should be thinking in terms of 'temporary workarounds' until it's fixed, or if I should get used to it not being an option and outright convert to pure heater or pure boiler.

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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by eX_ploit »

We can't barrel up steam anymore. Is this a bug or intended?

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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by Avezo »

I would like an FFF about those recipe changes. I know it's to be expected in experimental release, but some of those changes are frustrating, knowing even a tiny bit more what to expect (or how) would be nice.

For example, that steam for coal liquification seems weird, just put a boiler next to a line full of coal that's already there and plug in, doesn't seem to add much to the game. Theoretically setting up combined power plant and refinery might be cool, but I'm personally not going to try that before smarter people crack up all the new ratios.
eX_ploit wrote:We can't barrel up steam anymore. Is this a bug or intended?
We never could, we were only able to put it in tanks (including rail tanks) afaik.

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bobingabout
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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by bobingabout »

Klonan wrote:
bobingabout wrote:The update also broke my power mod, but, I'm indifferent about that being a bad thing.

you love making more work for me, don't you? :P
Sorry for breaking it all when you just got it working... but we need to keep you on your toes :)
You're a good guy, I like your humor.
eX_ploit wrote:We can't barrel up steam anymore. Is this a bug or intended?
I don't see any exceptions to tell the universal barrelling script not to make steam barrels.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.
I also have a Patreon.

Adeon Hawkwood
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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by Adeon Hawkwood »

Avezo wrote:For example, that steam for coal liquification seems weird, just put a boiler next to a line full of coal that's already there and plug in, doesn't seem to add much to the game. Theoretically setting up combined power plant and refinery might be cool, but I'm personally not going to try that before smarter people crack up all the new ratios.
I'm thinking that the change might have been done to increase the energy costs of the process more than anything else. Right now if you run the recipe and convert everything to solid fuel you actually end up with more stored energy than you started with (10 coal = 80MJ, 10 coal = 10 H. Oil + 15 L. Oil + 20 Petroleum = 3.25 Solid Fuel = 81.25MJ, assuming H. Oil is cracked to L. Oil). Now obviously you use more than 1.25MJ actually running the process but it's still a very favorable rate of return, particularly if your regular processing has excess light oil and you use petroleum from this rather than converting that light oil to petroleum (10 coal + 30 L. Oil = 80MJ + 20 Petroleum, 10 coal + 30 L. Oil = 10 H. Oil + 45 L. Oil + 20 Petroleum = 5.25 Solid Fuel + 20 Petroleum = 131.25MJ + 20 Petroleum). Changing the process to require steam indirectly increases the energy cost of the process.

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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by YokoZar »

I'd like to escalate a serious bug that got modded as "working as intended" -- viewtopic.php?f=23&t=46646

I don't think your intention is to delete player's save files :)

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undarl
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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by undarl »

bobingabout wrote:
eX_ploit wrote:We can't barrel up steam anymore. Is this a bug or intended?
I don't see any exceptions to tell the universal barrelling script not to make steam barrels.
Actually, in the new __base__/prototypes/fluid/demo-fluid.lua there's a line in the steam definition: "auto_barrel = false". I'm guessing it's also present in the game definition. It does mean you could easily mod steam to be barrel-able if you felt the need, though.

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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by Avezo »

Adeon Hawkwood wrote:
Avezo wrote:For example, that steam for coal liquification seems weird, just put a boiler next to a line full of coal that's already there and plug in, doesn't seem to add much to the game. Theoretically setting up combined power plant and refinery might be cool, but I'm personally not going to try that before smarter people crack up all the new ratios.
I'm thinking that the change might have been done to increase the energy costs of the process more than anything else. Right now if you run the recipe and convert everything to solid fuel you actually end up with more stored energy than you started with (10 coal = 80MJ, 10 coal = 10 H. Oil + 15 L. Oil + 20 Petroleum = 3.25 Solid Fuel = 81.25MJ, assuming H. Oil is cracked to L. Oil). Now obviously you use more than 1.25MJ actually running the process but it's still a very favorable rate of return, particularly if your regular processing has excess light oil and you use petroleum from this rather than converting that light oil to petroleum (10 coal + 30 L. Oil = 80MJ + 20 Petroleum, 10 coal + 30 L. Oil = 10 H. Oil + 45 L. Oil + 20 Petroleum = 5.25 Solid Fuel + 20 Petroleum = 131.25MJ + 20 Petroleum). Changing the process to require steam indirectly increases the energy cost of the process.
I actually did some half-napkin math about that and it turned out to be actually a loss of energy. Not much, but still and it was before taking into account power consumption of refineries and chemical plants themselves, so I didn't even bother to go deeper into it. I might've calcualted it wrong though, doesn't matter anymore anyway.

The point is, if it was the case, increasing refineries' power consumption would be much cleaner solution IMO.

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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by undarl »

Added a global table "mods" - a mapping of mod name to mod version available during the prototype loading stage.
Thanks for this. Huzzah for easier mod integrations!

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Re: Version 0.15.10

Post by AndrewIRL »

MeduSalem wrote:On a side note that's it, that's all the disappointments I can take for a major version. See you guys around 0.16.
Come on MeduSalem, we all know you love Facotorio and are super active (Posts: 1034) on the boards. Calm down, take a deep breath. Breaking changes are annoying but, to be fair, the devs have not released a major version yet, the current stable release is 0.14 - just wait a bit and the changes will settle down and you can move to 0.15, no need to wait 'til 0.16.

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