Factorio Roadmap for 0.17+

Information about releases and roadmap.
Dagobert
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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Dagobert » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:22 pm

Roadmap wishes for 0.16+
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Endgame content

Why? I regularly play with 3 friends and they all love the game. But after you finished launching a rocket and somewhat build a bigger base, they are missing a goal (all achievements achieved). Yes, you (I ;) ) come up with ideas like challenges or suggested vanilla-friendly-mods like SpaceX (who are prolonging the game without changing it) or gamechangers like Bob's, but still: There is no "goal". At least no goal in the vanilla game.

How? (just a couple of ideas)
Easy to implement: Create new achievements - somewhat stupid, but that's how lot's of games bind their users at the moment: Create "throphys" that mean nothing, but are there for you.
examples:
- launch x rockets per x minutes
- achieve a production score of x
- achieve a production score of x/minute

Somewhat difficult to implement:
- alien invasion - implement huge alien attacks from biter/spitters at some area of that map to give an additional challenge and thread (with the achievement "survive x alien invasions")


Real endgame content (needs lots of work probably):
I would suggest looking at SpaceX - that is already motivating, but it has no graphical content. Go back to the idea of creating something in space, build a platform (Factorissimo-concept) that can be supplied by rockets. E.g. produce the science packs on that station (either additonally or only by having that station).

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Alderin » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:39 am

Real endgame content (needs lots of work probably):
I would suggest looking at SpaceX - that is already motivating, but it has no graphical content. Go back to the idea of creating something in space, build a platform (Factorissimo-concept) that can be supplied by rockets. E.g. produce the science packs on that station (either additonally or only by having that station).
Not that there's much weight to my opinion, but I agree here.

I think it would extend the end-game a bit if the space science packs had to be made in space, so you have to research several space station components, then build the white science factory, then launch it up there, then launch supplies for the factory to actually build the white science modules. Then, maybe, you could be forced to find and retrieve the capsule containing the results, which might have drifted into enemy territory on re-entry. Finally, the end-game goal could be moved from launching a single rocket to manned space travel and building a rocket + space ship capable of getting off this planet for good.

Feels like a better narrative to me.

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Sigma1 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:22 pm

Alderin wrote:
Real endgame content (needs lots of work probably):
I would suggest looking at SpaceX - that is already motivating, but it has no graphical content. Go back to the idea of creating something in space, build a platform (Factorissimo-concept) that can be supplied by rockets. E.g. produce the science packs on that station (either additonally or only by having that station).
Not that there's much weight to my opinion, but I agree here.

I think it would extend the end-game a bit if the space science packs had to be made in space, so you have to research several space station components, then build the white science factory, then launch it up there, then launch supplies for the factory to actually build the white science modules. Then, maybe, you could be forced to find and retrieve the capsule containing the results, which might have drifted into enemy territory on re-entry. Finally, the end-game goal could be moved from launching a single rocket to manned space travel and building a rocket + space ship capable of getting off this planet for good.

Feels like a better narrative to me.
I otherwise agree fully, but the collection of the packs should be automatable.
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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by kovarex » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:15 am

I will never get this "Endgame content" proposals. End game content is always present, in every game. If the game is extended to have 2X more content, the content towards the end of the game could be considered end game content, but people that finishes all would say again, that they need end game content.

Instead of saying that you want end game content, you could just say that you want more content.

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by quyxkh » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:22 am

kovarex wrote:I will never get this "Endgame content" proposals. End game content is always present, in every game. If the game is extended to have 2X more content, the content towards the end of the game could be considered end game content, but people that finishes all would say again, that they need end game content.

Instead of saying that you want end game content, you could just say that you want more content.
Just think of it as the playerbase enrichment process :-)

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by MeduSalem » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:16 am

kovarex wrote:I will never get this "Endgame content" proposals. End game content is always present, in every game. If the game is extended to have 2X more content, the content towards the end of the game could be considered end game content, but people that finishes all would say again, that they need end game content.

Instead of saying that you want end game content, you could just say that you want more content.
Endgame is not about providing more and more items or a longer tech tree, if that is what you mean by "more content".

I mean no offense, but it is generally a thing that many developers don't get... especially in the MMO/RPG genres where they live by the rule of power creep with continously devaluing all the items by releasing new, even more powerful items. That mindset is burned into developer's and player's minds alike ever since WoW set the standard ... and ever since a lot of people seem to believe that is what endgame means.

Endgame is usually about making the most fun out of the "content" you already have.
Replayability
Increasing the replayability is one way to do that.

Like starting the game with a different set of rules or playing the game in a way that might actually result in a different outcome. (Again no offense, but every replay in Factorio is exactly the same no matter the map settings and the only thing that is really influenced by all the map settings is how much time you have to sink to get exactly the same result)

A very good example that I found interesting when it comes to Factorio-like games is Big Pharma where the resources (and their capabilities) are always random and hence result in recipes/products that are also always random. Which in return provides a different outcome every time and no belt/machine configuration ever looks like the other from map to map. You basically have to adapt your strategies every time and think about new solutions of how to deal with the complexity of a recipe.

Don't worry I don't ask you guys to change the fundamentals of Factorio (especially not when the game is only a few months away from finalization)... but if you want an example on how to create unique replays then you probably should have a look at above stated game.
Breaking the Monotony
To keep on playing the same map there doesn't necessarily need to be more items either:
  • Mini Quests/Goals

    There could also be optional more-or-less dynamic quests or mini goals one can try to fulfill and that may scale in difficulty arcording to your current factory capabilities (like tied to throughput measurements or amount of specific items placed on the map etc).

    I know there is the supply challenge scenario but if some of those things were also part of the regular freeplay then people would have something to do there even if they are already far past launching a rocket.
    Same goes for Wave Defense... if a wave defense quest would pop up every now and then in freeplay to test the strengths of your defense it would also be quite interesting and could break up the monotony.

    I think you guys and also the playerbase could come up with a shitton of such text-based scripted minigoals that not necessarily require a ton of new graphics and items.

    That said I know implementing something like dynamic quest/goal system is not a weekend-task and means more development time to be invested but it actually builds on already existing content and it might even scale with future content. I also don't say it has to be in Vanilla Factorio, but you might consider it for a possible DLC/Expansion.
  • Exploration and local effects

    One could randomly spawn stuff on the map that makes it worthwhile to keep on exploring and conquering new territory. (Because currently there isn't much incentive to do that because beyoned the horizon is just more of the same biter-ridden wasteland)

    Space-magic things like local areas where some of the gameplay rules are different. Like areas where the efficiency/speed/productivity/pollution of certain recipes or machines is greatly increased or even decreased, or areas where solar panels output more/less electricity, or areas where spawned Biters/Spitters have different resistances, etc, stuff like that. That would give a lot of tactical aspect on where to build certain stuff and other optimization possibilities. And since the location of such features is differently from map to map it would automatically create different replays and outcomes too. Basically giving the map not only aesthetics but also some damn strategic use.

    Or like for example wells of infinite ore that are sometimes hidden underneath regular ore patches. (Would be an alternative to Infinite mining productivity research worth considering)

    Such "semi-unique"-features that give you that "ahhh yeeeeeesss finally"-feel of satisfaction every now and then when you are exploring.


I mean you don't have to do any of that. Factorio is a sandbox type of game anyway where people create their own goals and fun... mostly. And at some point that fun comes to an inevitable end. (Not talking about mods though because that's an entirely different topic)
Last edited by MeduSalem on Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by brunzenstein » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:43 am

kovarex wrote:
Instead of saying that you want end game content, you could just say that you want more content.
Correct kovarex! Kind of...

So - give up sending x rockets to space as it goes without further widening of gameplay fun.
After the first rockets fired, further rockets to start becomes boring at best as it doesn't provide any really sparkling further user experience.

So -introduce a starship, name: "SS Arche Noah":

The SS AN (stuffed to the brim with an emergency survival package the user sets up like Noah has so successfully done - the reason why we are here discussing the matter in first place) could land on a uninhabited arid planet without air, forcing the machines to be build by the user under ground from the emergency package up. With new entities for survival like need for oxygen production, elevators, waste management and new energy forms to find to satisfy the needs.
This would extend / enlarge Factorio with a minimum programming effort to a new level of user happiness without giving up the underlying game machine

PS: The landing / crash on the planet could be graphically wise a lot of fun. As not the whole survival package makes it.
PPS: Have fun in Taipei!

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Sigma1 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:57 pm

brunzenstein wrote: So -introduce a starship, name: "SS Arche Noah":

The SS AN (stuffed to the brim with an emergency survival package the user sets up like Noah has so successfully done - the reason why we are here discussing the matter in first place) could land on a uninhabited arid planet without air, forcing the machines to be build by the user under ground from the emergency package up. With new entities for survival like need for oxygen production, elevators, waste management and new energy forms to find to satisfy the needs.
This would extend / enlarge Factorio with a minimum programming effort to a new level of user happiness without giving up the underlying game machine

PS: The landing / crash on the planet could be graphically wise a lot of fun. As not the whole survival package makes it.
PPS: Have fun in Taipei!
So if I understood correctly, you could build a starship and travel to airless planets in the endgame, which sounds pretty cool and a nice challenge that at least I would definitely enjoy. Also, there could indeed be a fancy cutscene with the player crashing onto the planet in the beginning.

TL;DR I agree with this.
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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by brunzenstein » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:26 pm

Sigma1 wrote:
brunzenstein wrote: So -introduce a starship, name: "SS Arche Noah":
So if I understood correctly, you could build a starship and travel to airless planets in the endgame, which sounds pretty cool and a nice challenge that at least I would definitely enjoy. Also, there could indeed be a fancy cutscene with the player crashing onto the planet in the beginning.

TL;DR I agree with this.
The vital point I forgot is that after the landing the factory has to be constructed under ground giving, or better said, forced the game in a kind of 3rd dimension construction.
If clever designed that could be a new game in a existing game using the existing underlying programming machine WUBE has developed so painstakingly

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Tricorius » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:25 pm

brunzenstein wrote: This would extend / enlarge Factorio with a minimum programming effort to a new level of user happiness without giving up the underlying game machine
Except. This then becomes “end-game content”. And what do you do when you’re done building up the new planet? Build SSAN mkII and crash-land on yet another planet? Maybe this one doesn’t have stone?

How unlucky can your player-character get? ;)

Also, although this might truly be minimal *programming* effort, it would require resetting the environment via “inside” themed graphics; which I would expect would be pretty extensive graphics effort.

P.S. If my bots didn’t work “underground” I would play this extended scenario exactly once (or as many times as it takes to satisfy my achievement-completionist mentality). ;)

Edit: I actually consider Factorio 1 to have a pretty complete set of content. At end-game, you can continue your challenge and set your own goals, or you can start a new map. There is only so much the team can do to draw you back in and keep playing.

I’d rather that extra effort be spent on Factorio 2 or whatever the devs have next up their sleeves.

To be fair: the idea of a bootstrapped “reset” isn’t a bad one, particularly if there is some pretty easy way to setup constraints or such. The player could then decide whether they want to play within the new constraints or end the game and start a new one.

The idea of being able to start a new planet, partially bootstrapped with some stuff sounds nice (I’d love to keep my power armor with personal roboports and bots). It helps skip the first 45 minutes or so of setting up a new “bootstrap” base.

I kinda feel like a lot of this stuff is available via scenarios, etc. but I could be wrong. That could add some of the randomization that might be kinda fun for a change. Not sure I’d want it in every play through though.

For me, Factorio is my “unwind” game from a busy day of stressful coding. I can make small, fun decisions that don’t really matter, and see a progressively satisfying world take shape. I don’t really want a meteor to fall in the middle of my base and smash my nuclear reactors while I’m in this mental state. ;)

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Drury » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:16 am

In my mind the terms "pre-game" "early game", "mid game", "late game" and "end game" are analogous to "prologue", "first act", "second act", "third act" and "epilogue" in scriptwriting. Endgames and epilogues aren't supposed to have a lot of content, it's just a winddown period after the climax.

Now if we were to implement a space stage... That's make the current lategame midgame, and the space stage would take place of the endgame. The victory condition/climax would shift towards whatever you'd have to do in space to win. And if the space stage took place after the victory condition/climax... Then that's kinda stupid isn't it? The game has already finished. Why suddenly establish a whole new stage with different rules in the epilogue?
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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by JuicyJuuce » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:55 pm

Guys, if you want more stuff to do after you have played through the single player experience, join a PvP server. It really changes how you play the game. You have very different priorities and there are various different kinds of pvp modes that each have their own experience along with a host of settings that change the experience.

We got a 24/7 pvp server (search 3ra in the browser list) if you want to check it out. We're hoping to tweak it so that the average game lasts an hour and up to three hours at the most.

edit: by the way, we always run the latest experimental version which at the moment is 0.16.22
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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by draknor » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:23 pm

MeduSalem wrote:
Breaking the Monotony
I've been thinking about some of these ideas as well. Don't get me wrong - I love Factorio for what it is, and the last thing I need is more reasons to stay addicted, but what I feel it's "missing" is some kind of event system with both random events and triggered events. The goal of these events is to "break the monotony" and force the player to pay attention to something besides whatever they were working on. Distractions like that actually can make the game more exciting, because they take away a bit of your control of your destiny. Here's some example ideas:
  • Biter Spawn Surge event - when playing with biters, at some random point an event is triggered that increases biter spawning 200% (or whatever), that lasts for some period of time (10 game days? 30 game days?)
  • Lush Growing Season - Have an event that spontaneously generates more trees across the map for a short period of time.
  • Sunspots - Radar coverage range temporarily reduced 50%
  • Earthquake - when miner density in an area > X, random chance for an event that deals damage to all entities in the affected area & adds rock piles
  • Sinkhole - random section of land "sinks", creating a new water tile in it's place (and destroying any entities built upon it)
  • Cosmic Event - temporary bonus to science production or research
Hmmm... this is actually kind of hard to come up with events that would be meaningful, and not just annoying. :)

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Deadlock989 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:00 pm

draknor wrote:Hmmm... this is actually kind of hard to come up with events that would be meaningful, and not just annoying. :)
Nutshell.

Your suggestions remind me strongly of RimWorld and its "story" RNG.

I don't play RimWorld any more.

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by foodfactorio » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:55 am

MeduSalem wrote:
Replayability
Increasing the replayability is one way to do that.
  • Mini Quests/Goals

    There could also be optional more-or-less dynamic quests or mini goals one can try to fulfill and that may scale in difficulty arcording to your current factory capabilities (like tied to throughput measurements or amount of specific items placed on the map etc).

    I think you guys and also the playerbase could come up with a shitton of such text-based scripted minigoals that not necessarily require a ton of new graphics and items.
    That said I know implementing something like dynamic quest/goal system is not a weekend-task
Hi, just to mention the link in my Sig (for 1st mod idea) this is similar to what i thought last year:
https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50256
please feel free to have a look and add any comments, as i tried to list a break down of small tasks that a developer might need to do, to try and help someone make the mod easily. I recently saw 2 mods that seems to do a bit of this already, and Nebri just made a mod sounding similar to homeworld which i need to try out.

also, for a future road map, i really (Really Really) do think that if Wube can get in touch with Oxeye (the makers of Harvest Massive Encounter), they could both make something cool, as well as both get (something) out of it, because Harvest has cool Laser Tower Linking mechanics, UFOs, Full Wave modes and Single Player, and Factorio has cool Factory building (mainly) and very good Multiplayer..... both games use LUA too :)
(also me from the mod portal - im not dustine lol) = https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Dustine/ ... ssion/9108
my 1st Mod Idea :) viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50256

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Aeternus » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:56 am

Some other ideas about "endgame" / random event content that could be triggered and shouldn't be too hard to program:
- "Biterzilla" awakens: Upon destroying a biter nest when evolution is maxed out, have a tiny chance at spawning a -much- nastier biter. Single unit, but with much much much more health/resistances and damage dealing capabilities. Something that'll definately make a dent in player defenses and will require some player attention. Brainless artillery-will-keep-the-nests-away would then become a liability...
- Project Interstellar: Instead of just sending a satellite up, start sending starship components into orbit. Keep the current requirements to actually send rockets up, but also allow for cargoes along the lines of "Hydroponics Module". "Engine Module", "Control module", "Fuel cargo"...

Not sure if this is feasable but:
- Battered Planet mode: A planet with a thin atmosphere prone to frequent meteor strikes. Meteor strikes would deal heavy damage to an area hit, but leave a random resource patch (promoting a spread out factory and engineering for failure)
- Disaster events: Random positive or negative effects. Such as:
* Biter Bloom (doubles spawnrate of biters)
* Biter Wilting (biters at half health for the duration)
* Solar Interference (power production gets a 50% penalty for the duration)
* Chemical Spill (large amount of pollution produced somewhere)

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:59 am

Aeternus wrote:Upon destroying a biter nest when evolution is maxed out...
Evolution approaches 1, or 100%, but never actually reaches it.
Aeternus wrote:- Project Interstellar: Instead of just sending a satellite up, start sending starship components into orbit. Keep the current requirements to actually send rockets up, but also allow for cargoes along the lines of "Hydroponics Module". "Engine Module", "Control module", "Fuel cargo"...
To what point? Factorio is a game without end, the rocket -was- the end but the nature of the game begs the question "what is the point". This question is recursive - to build a space station, why? To mine asteroids, why? No ending will be satisfying.

The remainder of your suggestions are good mod ideas, the base game should be kept straightforward.
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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:14 am

No. Please god no, none of this random event stuff.

Factorio is deterministic. That is one of the chief pleasures, when you have a problem in your factory and you fix it and you made it work better and you can watch everything chugging along with great satisfaction. Then you fix another problem. When you run out of problems, you choose the next problem to set yourself.

Wrecking that cycle with RNG misfortunes would be a massive pain. Random dice-rolling to the end that "today none of your solar panels work" or "today biters are twice as strong for no good reason" is just an irritant. My instinctive reaction when I get a bad dice roll would be to load a previous save. Rimworld is a great little game but it has about 1% of the replayability of Factorio, for this exact reason: half of the adversity provided is just dumb bad luck. That's an incredibly poor base for a game.

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Klonan » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:26 am

My way of balancing bots
Every couple of ingame hours, there is a thunderstorm, and it can arc between your logistic bots, and fry them

Also every few hours there is a tornado, that will swirl all your bots together and carry them away

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Re: Factorio Roadmap for 0.16+

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:30 am

Bonus: When a bot is destoyed, any ammo it is carrying is activated. For example, if it is carrying an Armour Piercing Magazine, it fires 10 shots per magazine randomly at nearby entities. Best not to carry nukes in logistic system. Though when they get blown away, if they're carrying a nuke and float over a biter nest... =D
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