Version 0.16.16

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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby RocketManChronicles » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:31 pm

VFaalcatnodriiro wrote:
Koub wrote:Now it's : whatever arrives in a splitter goes one right, one left, one right, one left. That's so much more logical for a mechanical splitter.


True. What we need now are "smart"-Splitters :D


Maybe that is where they are headed? ;)
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby TatsuZZMage » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:02 pm

So this change to splitters does it mean they have less of a memory footprint then? do they work faster/"less cpu"?
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby Rakshasa » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:33 am

VFaalcatnodriiro wrote:
Koub wrote:Now it's : whatever arrives in a splitter goes one right, one left, one right, one left. That's so much more logical for a mechanical splitter.


True. What we need now are "smart"-Splitters :D

Smart splitters would make it too easy to send every kind of item over the same belts and just the use smart splitters to sort them.
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby Anson » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:59 am

TL;DR please first (or at the same time) give alternatives and then fix/change something,
instead of first fixing the overheating problem without inventing a keyboard with control keys.


Drison wrote:
Koub wrote:Honestly, to all those who want the unintuitive black magic powered splitters :
https://xkcd.com/1172/

Hah this is spot on!

NO, it is a different problem ...
it would be "spot on", if we would have belt sorter items, belt sideloader items, etc in factorio, thus being able to achieve something without hacks or complicated large setups.
the situation in factorio would be something like no keyboard having a control key at all in that example (and not only one user's key being broken), thus everybody using the overheating workaround, and after fixing the overheating having no method to use or simulate that ctrl-functionality.

another example: underground belts are used to split the lanes of a belt (well known, and even documented). disallowing that trick in the future would be perfectly fine only if we have some other method, eg a belt separator item (which splits lanes to separate belts) or a lane stopper item (which blocks one or the other lane of a belt), or something similar. theoretically it might be possible to use arrays of filter inserters, but only in some cases (when the lanes have different items), and at a high cost of space, items, effort, urging people to use bots to build such things with blueprints, and annoy people.

for merging/sideloading, there is a wonderful mod by Klonan: Belt Buffer which allows up to 5 belts to directly insert into a buffer chest (straight belt and two "side belts" on the incoming side, two more incoming "side belts" with lower priority on the outgoing side, and one output belt. it also allows to use inserters to transfer items (input and output) between belts and chests/assemblers very fast. really nice!
but that is only a mod. we need similar tools for vanilla! maybe like that suggestion of a 1x1 item (buffer chest) which has 2 inputs and 2 outputs (with optional configuration for input/output, filters, lanes, etc), but until we get such things, we need to be able to continue using all the traditional and wellknown tricks of splitters, undergrounds, sideloading, etc.

a simple idea how to solve sideloading problems (got it 5 seconds ago, not very well thought through yet): change belt speed to 15/30/60 items per second. that would be nice round numbers instead of n*13.333333, and allow to have a faster (double the speed) belt where sideloading occurs. it could/should be documented that no belt has full compression by sideloading, except by using faster belts on the sideloading location (and thus the highest speed belts have no easy method for full compression), and people could decide whether to stay with easily compressed yellow and red belts (which are even a bit faster than before) or use the very fast new blue belts which can't be fully compressed easily.

thus please first (or at the same time) give any good alternatives and then fix/change something,
instead of first fixing the overheating problem without inventing a keyboard with control keys.

ps: if terrain generation has to be fixed in a way that breaks saves (really break saves, or only have ugly edges at newly generated chunks?), please do so before 0.16 becomes stable. if you announce that change a week in advance on an experimental build, people can decide to stay with a specific build until their map is done, and nobody should complain, in contrast to having buggy map generation in a stable 0.16, and then breaking it anyway when going to 0.17
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby Aardwolf » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:30 am

Can you please give the splitter a UI with different settings and modes so that it can be used for:

-intuitive balancing
-splitting two lanes onto 2 different belts
-rudimentary sorting building block
-allow items to change lanes vs preserving lanes

based on the mode and settings?

The splitter has up to 4 inputs and 4 outputs due to 2 lanes on 2 belts! Please allow some flexible advanced engineering with those for those who want to mess with settings, while having simple default basic behavior. That would fit this game perfectly!

Thanks!

EDIT: oh the friday facts mentions splitter options, awesome! Very much missing in there, though, is lane-management of the belts. Please allow to do things with the lanes as well to allow splitting lanes to different belts etc...
Last edited by Aardwolf on Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby 5thHorseman » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:27 pm

5thHorseman wrote:I understood how splitters worked, saw usefulness in it, and appreciate the change to a simpler functioning.

If for no reason other than if your guy could make a splitter that complex, he should be able to just make a sorter :D


Never mind. They removed this functionality to make way apparently for splitters to be even smarter than they were before. They even have some sorting functionality now.
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby FactorioParadox » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:56 pm

Rakshasa wrote:
VFaalcatnodriiro wrote:
Koub wrote:Now it's : whatever arrives in a splitter goes one right, one left, one right, one left. That's so much more logical for a mechanical splitter.


True. What we need now are "smart"-Splitters :D

Smart splitters would make it too easy to send every kind of item over the same belts and just the use smart splitters to sort them.

And yet the devs said in the latest Friday Facts that we are getting Smart Splitters.
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby malventano » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:31 pm

FactorioBot wrote:Minor Features
  • Items on the ground can be mined manually for precise control of what you pick up.


Thank you!
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby bobingabout » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:19 pm

RocketManChronicles wrote:
VFaalcatnodriiro wrote:
Koub wrote:Now it's : whatever arrives in a splitter goes one right, one left, one right, one left. That's so much more logical for a mechanical splitter.


True. What we need now are "smart"-Splitters :D


Maybe that is where they are headed? ;)

FFF says, yes, that's where they're headded
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby cpy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:03 am

I hope for stack inserter functionality that loads stacks of items to a stacked belt.

You can limit size of max stack to what stack inserter can pickup at once, let's say we increase stack inserter capacity to 32, when stack inserter pickup stacked items it will be converted by inserter to stacked version with durability 32/32 (unusable by any machine other than stack inserter unpacker) then it can be picked up with stack inserter again and it will be converted to 32 items. You could see items on belt with "damage" meters to see levels of stacked items on it and you won't need new belts or inserters because stacked inserters could only get this feature. Only think that would be added is option to disable stacking option for stack inserter. Now it is true stack inserter!

I think this can be done with script mod and shouldn't be hard to implement if anyone ever wanted to have bots vs belts discussion. Since stacks of 32 items can now be on belt it would be way faster and will act as insane storage :D
Probably limit max inserter stack to 32 for all items with stacks greater than 32 and limit lower stacks for unstackable items or items with max stack less than 32.
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby bobingabout » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:54 am

cpy wrote:I hope for stack inserter functionality that loads stacks of items to a stacked belt.

I suggested that in the FFF... not that anyone will read that where it is, it's just getting buried.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=56519&start=400#p334355
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby Koub » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:13 am

bobingabout wrote:
cpy wrote:I hope for stack inserter functionality that loads stacks of items to a stacked belt.

I suggested that in the FFF... not that anyone will read that where it is, it's just getting buried.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=56519&start=400#p334355

The devs will definitely read it, I'm sure they're particularly attentive to what's said in these topics, even if they don't speak much :).
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby batorfly » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:29 am

I Quote your post so maybe someone read it. One thing: speed research is more vanilla-friendly i think, next tier is just a mod-thing.
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby bobingabout » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:58 am

batorfly wrote:I Quote your post so maybe someone read it. One thing: speed research is more vanilla-friendly i think, next tier is just a mod-thing.

Research is a good option (I mean, there's several train and bot related researches that improve stats and values, but none for belts)
and to go along with no current research for belts(other than adding extra tiers), adding tier 4 just felt more natural.

Keep in mind that any increase in the speed of a belt, will also need to be accompanied by a speed increase for inserters, otherwise they won't be able to grab moving items.
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby The Eriksonn » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:15 pm

There is also no belt related achievments but 6 i Think for bots, just a minor thing but i would still love to get an achievment for making very messy belts or something... :roll:
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby bobingabout » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:10 pm

here's a few belt achievement ideas.

1 mile machine: Place a belt that covers 880 tiles (assume each tile is a 2 yards long)
If I could walk 500 miles: Items travelled 500 miles via belt.
Now you're thinking with splitters: use a splitter to Prioritise left and right for input and output, and apply a filter. (the new stuff they showed off in FFF)
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby Aardwolf » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:32 pm

bobingabout wrote:here's a few belt achievement ideas.

1 mile machine: Place a belt that covers 880 tiles (assume each tile is a 2 yards long)
If I could walk 500 miles: Items travelled 500 miles via belt.
Now you're thinking with splitters: use a splitter to Prioritise left and right for input and output, and apply a filter. (the new stuff they showed off in FFF)


I think people exploring space should use metric units :)
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby The Eriksonn » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:50 pm

bobingabout wrote:here's a few belt achievement ideas.

1 mile machine: Place a belt that covers 880 tiles (assume each tile is a 2 yards long)
If I could walk 500 miles: Items travelled 500 miles via belt.
Now you're thinking with splitters: use a splitter to Prioritise left and right for input and output, and apply a filter. (the new stuff they showed off in FFF)


Spaghettification: have a 10 by 10 area with at least 10 splitters and 20 underground belts and have flowing items on all belts in the area
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby Jap2.0 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:39 pm

Aardwolf wrote:
bobingabout wrote:here's a few belt achievement ideas.

1 mile machine: Place a belt that covers 880 tiles (assume each tile is a 2 yards long)
If I could walk 500 miles: Items travelled 500 miles via belt.
Now you're thinking with splitters: use a splitter to Prioritise left and right for input and output, and apply a filter. (the new stuff they showed off in FFF)


I think people exploring space should use metric units :)


Also, I think that each tile is ~1m, which is about 1 yard.
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Re: Version 0.16.16

Postby Caine » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:00 pm

Aardwolf wrote:I think people exploring space should use metric units :)

Indeed. The USA is the only country in the world without serious metrication plans and even the NASA has switched to metric.
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