Re: Dyson Sphere Program
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:24 pm
In factorio we have this:
In DSP, we can do that with belts:
In DSP, we can do that with belts:
Welp, factorio also has bot based bases and not everyone likes them. That they're theoretically possible doesn't really imply anything. In DSP though you're building across a bunch of smallish planets, so you'll have to use at least some of it. DSP has two types: "drones" which are like bots and serve on one planet only, and interplanetary "logistic vessels" which are like LTN trains i guess. I only built a small-ish main-bus based main base with five-ish mining outposts which imho isn't really any different than building a train network with mining outposts in factorio. But if you wanted to build "mega" you'd have to split it up amongst several planets due to space-contraints. For normal bases i think the space constrains are a nice incentive to build a bit differently than in factorio - more smelting/processing at the outposts, less centralized. For building the sphere i did use the two remaining planets in my home system so my science-main-chaos-base-planet doesn't get too crowded.
The "construction bots" are imho one of the biggest design flaws (right after the miner placement minigame :p). In factorio you can either build manually (uses items) or place blueprints (free), but in DSP you can only place ghosts of one entity per click - and placing ghosts consumes items! Thus in DSP the bots do not solve any problem but serve only to make building more slow and annoying. I've spent far too much time waiting for the bots to construct what i just ordered and then wait again for them to return to me. On top of that the bot flight path is wasteful - for small entities (belts, inserters) they needlessly fly 5 meters upwards first, and the requirement to fly to the height-center of the ghost makes it very slow for tall buildings too (gas giant harvesters!). Imho until they introduce blueprints the whole system should've been replaced with instant construction. At least with all end-game upgrades it's not too bad anymore.
That is entirely not my experience (see post above). Would you care to give more details about how much power you use / produce from the different sources? My homeplanet was the only planet with 100% wind-efficency, and i think i saw one other planet with 140%. All others had <70% wind efficency, my secondary planet had 0%. And also wind uses huge amounts of space. With solar i had the low efficiency problem too - every other planet has <80% efficency (except for the rare "blue" sun systems where only half the planets are affected). But at least solar is small and can be spammed. The one time i tried using windpower i had to build all around the planet just to power a bunch of chemplants. Ofc solar also needs to be build all around, but uses less space per watt. With blueprints a combined wind/solar field might've been feasible. I think in the end-game you're supposed to ship anti-matter fuel to other planets, and was looking forward to that until i noticed the iron cost (it has to compete with free solar!). So in the end every planet made its own energy. Also with all the bashing i have to say that i quite liked having to consider orbital mechanics for solar (planet axis inclination, summer/winter cycle).
How do you semi-automate? I just had a chest that was being filled. This was the only thing i used fuel rods for, and by end-game-stage the ridiculous capacity of anti-matter fuel allowed me to almost forget the whole system - a fitting reward considering the cost.
Ah yes, in mid-game i also had a phase with too much hydrogen. In end-game i didn't have that problem on my main base anymore (probably mostly converted to deuterium). And on the my secondary base planet i used the extra hydrogen from fire-ice-to-graphene to power half the base.
I noticed half-way through that the rendering is completely suspended in map mode. Opening the map even in the middle of my end-game main base always brought me back to 60fps. I used this alot to speed up building. So it seems that at least the factory-simulation is well optimized - seperate planets should be easy to multi-thread. It worked so well that i suspected they might be using some sort of "average" output for planets that are out-of-view, but i never saw any evidence for that.MEOWMI wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:19 pmI dipped into 50 fps at worst on my 6 y.o. rig, but I'm not sure if this is a linear trend because it was still 50 fps at worst even 20 hours later. This is also not counting looking at a largely populated area which can drop me to as low as 30 fps due to all the entity graphics, but a poorly optimized game would definitely drop even further so there is some effort put into it. When not researching, my fps was 60 otherwise. Some tiny lag spikes occurred frequently I think due to Unity's overhead processing.
How about Capitalism 2, or I guess it's Capitalism Lab now?Koub wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:15 amI have played countless hours SimCity and Sim City 2000, and never playing Factorio gave me the "well ... that feels like Sim City" impression. Maybe subsequent Sium City sequels changed significantly enough to give that feeling, but
Factorio is immensely different from these games. Satisfactory and Dyson Sphere Program are a lot closer to the Factorio feel than Factorio can be to Sim City or Sim Tower.
I agree, the bots can be quite annoying, much more so than Factorio's variant. They're okay and occasionally very nice, but with at least as many caveats as benefits.eradicator wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:58 pmThe "construction bots" are imho one of the biggest design flaws [...]
It occurs to me that I may have overgeneralized my experience.
Mostly just in reference to using wireless poles for automated charging, spread out liberally in areas where I would regularly visit (notably the mall). This falls off in effectiveness towards the end so I guess it's a case of having boxes of hydrogen fuel until you can get better stuff. Can't lie, it's still a matter of inventory management to some degree...
Aha, yea. I tried, but the freely rotatable camera in addition to the bending grids made it impossible :D.
I have to confess after a few hundred solar cells I wrote an auto-clicker script - mostly to place solar arrays. But it never gets really fast because a) circular grids that I had to carefully "trace" with the mouse and b) the infamous Unity input lag that also ignores "too fast" clicks.
Ah yes, if you just fit them into "holes" in the factory I can see that being quite powerful. In retrospect I didn't even automate them until mid-game. After all the nearest neighbour planet had 0% wind so I was forced to go solar. Also I already found the normal power-pole range too small so using them as replacement wouldn't have been an option for my build style.
When I got space-travel the first thing I did was to fly to the neighbouring silicon planet and build a solar panel factory. Throughout the game whenever I needed solars I went to that planet and fetched a chest load of 600 panels. Even in end-game the chest was always full when I came there, even though I never upgraded the facility. I estimate that I placed a total of 3000~5000 panels over all planets. Most of the planets I colonized had 95%+ surface area luckily.
Nice. My home planet was usually between 90%~110% depending on production/science. And because placing solar panels is a PITA I never placed much more than nessecary.
Overall I only saw one 1:2 locked and one 1:4 locked planet. And that's basically just very long day/night cycles. The best solar planet I saw was a 140% normal planet in a blue-sun system where I built my titanium alloy (sulfuric ocean), which shifted about 140MW of power-burden off of my rocket planet.
I think the starting planet is always a gas giant sattelite. Mine was hydro+deuterium which helped a bit, but during the rocket-stage I completely used up the stock and had to colonize two more gas giants. Even if I'd had enough - on the main planet with all the water it would've been difficult to find space for all the generators.
I remember reading the description "allows charging from the grid", rushing the tech, building one and being totally disappointed by how slow the charging was. Switched to graphene fuel and never looked back. I used very few of them for long-range connections, but later dismantled all of them because of the running cost (who thought that power poles with a running cost were a good idea?!).
I hope not, unless they blow it up into half of a 4X game with your own defense fleet. I noticed that one of the mecha hands looks a bit gun-like...