Dyson Sphere Program

Things that are not directly connected with Factorio.
boolybooly
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Re: Dyson Sphere Program

Post by boolybooly »

I have this and it is playable.

What I miss is the ethical subtext of pollution, which is a core mechanic in Factorio and a major concern in the real world which our efforts to improve our productivity must grapple with constructively so we dont destroy the life support systems of our uniquely habitable planet.

This is why Factorio feels like an education and DSP for all its semi-scientific complexity, does not and feels like its evading a thorny problem we really need to pay attention to.

DSP is obviously a successor taking inspiration from Factorio and Wube should consider it homage and sincerest flattery. Why it does not have pollution though I dont know, it may be because it is on the to do list like combat but it currently makes the whole thing a bit too shiney happy for my taste and gives the impression of something warped by the developers (Youthcat Studio) need to avoid upsetting PRC propagandists.

Playable but with undertones of ethical evasion.

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Re: Dyson Sphere Program

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boolybooly wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:04 pm
Why it does not have pollution though I dont know,
In DSP you're just a robot sent to strip-mine a bunch of planets. Nobody is going to live on those planets, so pollution is a non-issue. Also the story seems to suggests that mankind lives in a matroshka-brain without a biological body, so even on the homeworld it wouldn't matter. And honestly in factorio it doesn't really matter either unless you're playing with super-charged biter settings.
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boolybooly
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Re: Dyson Sphere Program

Post by boolybooly »

eradicator wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:25 am
boolybooly wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:04 pm
Why it does not have pollution though I dont know,
In DSP you're just a robot sent to strip-mine a bunch of planets. Nobody is going to live on those planets, so pollution is a non-issue. Also the story seems to suggests that mankind lives in a matroshka-brain without a biological body, so even on the homeworld it wouldn't matter. And honestly in factorio it doesn't really matter either unless you're playing with super-charged biter settings.
This misses the point. Why would you switch pollution off? The pollution in Factorio causes biter attacks, it does not affect the avatar directly but causes problems through the impact on environment which attacks his build. This is courageous and meaningful gameplay and adds a dimension of payback for pride in power which DSP lacks.

If you switch it off obviously it wont have any effect at all but then you wont learn anything about arrogance. Arrogance is not the same as intelligence though both seem decisive, one leads to disaster, the other to happiness. Ignoring pollution is not the same as overcoming it.

I like the biter response as it provides a challenge which is interesting and also depicts the struggle between industrial and ecological priorities, which do matter in the real world and cannot safely be ignored. That is why Factorio is art.

Despite the 3D playfield DSP lacks strategic depth, there is nothing to fear. Its like a safe toy for children, a Bowdlerised immitation of Factorio for younger players, with brighter colours and a big robot but no challenge worth facing and no message worth hearing and no root in reality.

Pollution is a subtle strategic factor in Factorio which depicts the negative ecological consequences of unintelligent industry, which are a reality and yes I do turn up the biter settings.

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Re: Dyson Sphere Program

Post by FuryoftheStars »

boolybooly wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:41 pm
...
It should be noted, in case you didn't know, many people actually play Factorio with biters off. They don't care about the combat aspect and, frankly for them, it's actually a turn off. As such, pollution has no value to them, either.

They're just looking for a no pressure base/factory building game. Goes along with the mindset of not having buildings blocking your movement and if you can see it you can interact with it requests.

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Re: Dyson Sphere Program

Post by boolybooly »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:50 am
~~~
I am sure there are, though they are a subset of all players and my guess would be, a minority. Just as the internet consensus suggests a minority play Minecraft in peaceful mode with mob aggro switched off and they are free to do that but it is only half the game like that and most people seem to agree, not as much fun. If Minecraft could only be played in peaceful mode, how many people would play it, would Notch have been able to sell it to Microsoft for X zillion squids? I think not.

Factorio has been very successful because it appeals to the wider audience who like a challenge.

If DSP fails to do this then it may appeal to the subset of players who prefer to avoid consequences but mathematically this subset constitutes a smaller audience so it will be less successful with less widespread appeal than Factorio.

Intuitively I think that rings true. Builder games need a purpose in the way of survival and Factorio goes one better because its treatment of pollution also reflects reality and provides a muse, which is why I say it is art and DSP really does not qualify for that distinction the way it is currently.

Though there is a whole combat update on the way which may tackle that and presumably they are doing combat because they think there should be a challenge in the game. The only question is whether they can link it to the reality the rest of us live in or are avoiding it for political convenience.

Some in China get pollution, some do not. Those who do not should not be steering the agenda because pollution is real, you can measure it empirically. The question is who is in charge of the party, are they flexible enough to adapt to reality and can Youthcat find the imagination, courage and freedom to include it in their game in an entertaining way, or do they have to stick their heads in the sand, like an ostrich, to avoid going to jail.

In the UK there is resistance too. Luddites will say it is woke as if that was an insult. Indolence and incompetence causes people to resist and resent necessary change in all cultures, but change we must and games like Factorio help people to understand why. DSP not so much.

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