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Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation Windows update offtopic splitoff
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:43 am
by JimBarracus
Jap2.0 wrote:
Yeah, remember how everyone paniced when XP support ended? When Vista suppoort ended, I heard literally nothing - I only discovered that a few months after the fact when I stumbled across the table of when support would/did end for various Windows versions.
I know a few production lines and power plants that still use xp or even win 95. An upgrade is often not possible and super expensive.
Discontinuing xp support caused massive security issues. They solved it by isolating the networks.
But literally no one was insane enough to use vista to run factory machines. So no one cared.
Plus the majority of private users upgraded to at least win 7 or 10.
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:48 am
by steinio
This does not matter as everyone is pirating the newest Windows when it's out :p
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:03 am
by dee-
steinio wrote:This does not matter as everyone is pirating the newest Windows when it's out :p
Well, I hope noone pirates 8, 8.1 or 10. They'd be insane to pirate a spyboat.
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:22 am
by MeduSalem
JimBarracus wrote:I know a few production lines and power plants that still use xp or even win 95. An upgrade is often not possible and super expensive.
I still know a mechanical engineering company that runs Windows 3.11 on their computers where they write the programs for their CNC machines. Absolutely ridiculous but gets me nostalgic all the time.
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:05 am
by JimBarracus
MeduSalem wrote:
I still know a mechanical engineering company that runs Windows 3.11 on their computers where they write the programs for their CNC machines. Absolutely ridiculous but gets me nostalgic all the time.
Is this a competion now?
I know a company which runs super old production lines for big companies like bosch. (Electronical controllers)
They need to maintain spare part availability for 40 year old cars, for example KE Jetronic controllers or other things. The big companies rent space and get people who know the old machines and produce small quantities if needed.
Some still have punch cards others run on old packard bell "computers" which look like typewriter sized calculators where you write the code directly in machine language.
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:28 am
by steinio
Are these systems relevant to play Factorio? i say NO
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:27 pm
by Oktokolo
JimBarracus wrote:
Discontinuing xp support caused massive security issues. They solved it by isolating the networks.
That is, what they should have done from the start.
Seriously, you don't want your production lines to be accessible from the (inter)net. Depending on the value of your company's intelectual properties, industrial espionage might be a real threat. You might not only want to air-gap (and this does not mean using wifi *eg*) the production, but any other departments dealing with sensitive information too.
It is always a tradeoff between comfort and security though...
Regarding Factorio: I really appreciate, that it runs just fine on a hardened Gentoo because i too play it on my work equippment.
When it comes to Windows, Windows 7 is the most friendly OS for gaming today. It does what a gamer needs it to do - and it does nothing else (the nag screens of Windows 10 are that nasty, they even became a meme).
All Windows users should hold on to their Windows 7 until Microsoft becomes sane again - or switch to Linux (wich is not that easy if you also want to play other games than Factorio though).
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:01 am
by bobingabout
I have to agree. the single biggest reason I still use windows 7, instead of 10, is because I don't want to be told I have to install updates and restart the computer.
I turn on the computer, I want to use it there and then, not wait 3 hours for it to mess around doing updates.
I got a new tablet computer, on several occasions I've gone to use it and it's been updating.
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:15 am
by Engimage
bobingabout wrote:I have to agree. the single biggest reason I still use windows 7, instead of 10, is because I don't want to be told I have to install updates and restart the computer.
I turn on the computer, I want to use it there and then, not wait 3 hours for it to mess around doing updates.
I got a new tablet computer, on several occasions I've gone to use it and it's been updating.
You can always disable Windows Update service and feel relief in all versions of Windows including 10. However I would not recommend it due to security exposure to the latest threats.
You can then turn the service on when you are ready to update and force it to search for new updates
Windows 7 admin cmd:
Windows 10 admin cmd:
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:59 pm
by Deadly-Bagel
Windows Update has always been atrocious, even Windows 7 would occasionally just shut down in the middle of a game to install updates (it would show a dialogue warning of this --- behind the game I was playing of course), even if I had my settings to tell me of updates but not install them automatically. This was such a problem on our servers at work that our policy is now to disable the Windows Update service on all our servers. I then have a routine PowerShell script to temporarily enable it then install any pending updates and reboot the server.
I can kind of understand where Microsoft are coming from though... My colleague literally never turns his computer off. I don't know how he's managed it since my PC regularly reboots halfway through the day, but clearly in his case the updates somehow aren't aggressive enough (our WSUS box confirms they're not being installed), but shoving them down everyone's throats like this is not the right answer. At the very least we should have better controls in PowerShell to manage it for servers, and why would they block what we have from running remotely??? Idiocy.
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:11 pm
by Jap2.0
Deadly-Bagel wrote:Windows Update has always been atrocious, even Windows 7 would occasionally just shut down in the middle of a game to install updates (it would show a dialogue warning of this --- behind the game I was playing of course), even if I had my settings to tell me of updates but not install them automatically. This was such a problem on our servers at work that our policy is now to disable the Windows Update service on all our servers. I then have a routine PowerShell script to temporarily enable it then install any pending updates and reboot the server.
I can kind of understand where Microsoft are coming from though... My colleague literally never turns his computer off. I don't know how he's managed it since my PC regularly reboots halfway through the day, but clearly in his case the updates somehow aren't aggressive enough (our WSUS box confirms they're not being installed), but shoving them down everyone's throats like this is not the right answer. At the very least we should have better controls in PowerShell to manage it for servers, and why would they block what we have from running remotely??? Idiocy.
Really? Windows update (7) never does that for me. All I get is a small popup from the taskbar, and then I install them whenever I feel like it.
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:57 pm
by dtoxic
PacifyerGrey wrote:bobingabout wrote:I have to agree. the single biggest reason I still use windows 7, instead of 10, is because I don't want to be told I have to install updates and restart the computer.
I turn on the computer, I want to use it there and then, not wait 3 hours for it to mess around doing updates.
I got a new tablet computer, on several occasions I've gone to use it and it's been updating.
You can always disable Windows Update service and feel relief in all versions of Windows including 10. However I would not recommend it due to security exposure to the latest threats.
You can then turn the service on when you are ready to update and force it to search for new updates
Windows 7 admin cmd:
Windows 10 admin cmd:
Or you can use Windows Update Mini Tool, an excellent portable utility for managing updates with ease i use it on my Win10 Laptop and my Win7 Desktop
very easy to use and very convenient
here is a link if interested
https://www.ghacks.net/2015/10/10/windo ... g-windows/
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:13 pm
by Supercheese
Guys, this Windows Update discussion is getting severely off-topic...
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:18 pm
by Oktokolo
Supercheese wrote:Guys, this Windows Update discussion is getting severely off-topic...
Wonderful, isn't it?
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:54 am
by Jap2.0
Oktokolo wrote:Supercheese wrote:[Supercheese] Guys, this Windows Update discussion is getting severely off-topic...
Wonderful, isn't it?
I know, right? You see, it's on topic because, umm...
frantically thinks of random reason
um, well, it's all talking about improving aging software, so it's quite relevant.
(also fixed Supercheese's original for him).
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 am
by bobingabout
PacifyerGrey wrote:bobingabout wrote:I have to agree. the single biggest reason I still use windows 7, instead of 10, is because I don't want to be told I have to install updates and restart the computer.
I turn on the computer, I want to use it there and then, not wait 3 hours for it to mess around doing updates.
I got a new tablet computer, on several occasions I've gone to use it and it's been updating.
You can always disable Windows Update service and feel relief in all versions of Windows including 10. However I would not recommend it due to security exposure to the latest threats.
You can then turn the service on when you are ready to update and force it to search for new updates
Windows 7 admin cmd:
Windows 10 admin cmd:
I don't want to disable it, I just want it to tell me updates are available, and ASK me if and what it should install. then once it is installed, with windows 7 you get the 4 hour reminder to restart.
I want windows 10 to handle updates like windows 7, not be told I have to stop what and save ASAP because the computer is doing it now. or worse, go AFK and come back to find my work is gone.
On top of that, there's the update scheduler. please set working hours... so I thought about it, and set working hours from 7am to 4am. Yes, all day except a 3 hour window. Windows told me to fuck off because I can't set working hours more than an 8 hour time slot. I'M AT WORK LONGER THAN THAT!!!
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:23 am
by Deadly-Bagel
To be honest I've not had any problems at home so far on Win10. Most of the time it gives you a little popup that says "Hey! I want to restart!" and you click on it and go yeah yeah remind me at 3am I'll shut down before then anyway and it's all happy. Except for the one time I accidentally stayed up until 3am and it just shut down on me anyway xP serves me right I guess.
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:28 am
by Engimage
bobingabout wrote:I don't want to disable it, I just want it to tell me updates are available, and ASK me if and what it should install. then once it is installed, with windows 7 you get the 4 hour reminder to restart.
I want windows 10 to handle updates like windows 7, not be told I have to stop what and save ASAP because the computer is doing it now. or worse, go AFK and come back to find my work is gone.
On top of that, there's the update scheduler. please set working hours... so I thought about it, and set working hours from 7am to 4am. Yes, all day except a 3 hour window. Windows told me to fuck off because I can't set working hours more than an 8 hour time slot. I'M AT WORK LONGER THAN THAT!!!
The following might not work on Home eddition of Windows.
Open local group policy editor: Press Win+R and type
(here I can have translation issues but you can figure it out)
Expand Computer configuration -> Administrative templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Update
You'll be surprised how much you can tune in windows update behaviour. The problem here is the default configuration which is too intrusive.
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:13 pm
by dtoxic
bobingabout wrote:PacifyerGrey wrote:bobingabout wrote:I have to agree. the single biggest reason I still use windows 7, instead of 10, is because I don't want to be told I have to install updates and restart the computer.
I turn on the computer, I want to use it there and then, not wait 3 hours for it to mess around doing updates.
I got a new tablet computer, on several occasions I've gone to use it and it's been updating.
You can always disable Windows Update service and feel relief in all versions of Windows including 10. However I would not recommend it due to security exposure to the latest threats.
You can then turn the service on when you are ready to update and force it to search for new updates
Windows 7 admin cmd:
Windows 10 admin cmd:
I don't want to disable it, I just want it to tell me updates are available, and ASK me if and what it should install. then once it is installed, with windows 7 you get the 4 hour reminder to restart.
I want windows 10 to handle updates like windows 7, not be told I have to stop what and save ASAP because the computer is doing it now. or worse, go AFK and come back to find my work is gone.
On top of that, there's the update scheduler. please set working hours... so I thought about it, and set working hours from 7am to 4am. Yes, all day except a 3 hour window. Windows told me to fuck off because I can't set working hours more than an 8 hour time slot. I'M AT WORK LONGER THAN THAT!!!
Get the Windows update Minitool and set it to notification mode, you will get notified about updates and that's it, no forced updates, it just adds a key to registry, witch i forgot where it is but this tool does it automaticly,after all you don't want to "handcraft" anything in registry
Re: Friday Facts #230 - Engine modernisation
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:31 pm
by Jap2.0
dtoxic wrote:after all you don't want to "handcraft" anything in registry
Well, I mean, sometimes you do
.