Are trains useful?

[Kim Jong Ugly]

So my buddy and I have been playing multiplayer and when we got to the point where it was time to setup trains i asked him if he wanted to do it, he then proceeds to tell me about how he thinks trains are completely useless seeing as convener belts can do the game thing. I understand his point and i still think trains are one of the best part of the games but it got me thinking, does anyone else share this same ideology? I would like to hear your opinions on why you either do or dont use trains and why you think they are useful or useless.

[Ranakastrasz]

Trains are pretty cool, and have some upsides and some downsides vs belts

Belts are simple, can be extended, and work pretty much anywhere. I think the price adds up over long distances however, especially with high level belts, and if you want large volume.

Train tracks are far cheaper than belts, can handle many material types each, since you can run several trains over the same section.
Each train car can, at the station, load/unload, I think, 288 items per second into 12 chests with max inserter upgrades and stack inserters. Before, it was 48. In comparison, a single blue belt has a rate of around 40 items per second throughput using both sides.

This is per train car however, and you probably want to have at least 4.

Price wise. you get 2 rails of train track for 6 iron + 1 stone, covering a distance of 4. For the same distance, you need 4 express belts, per row you want to transfer. Each one costs you 21 iron and 2 lubricant, meaning 84 iron and 8 lubricant. That is WAY more expensive.
If you go with 2 way rails, or even a 2 and 2 rails, you still only go up to 12 and 24 iron per distance of 4, so it is still cheaper.

The upkeep. Trains use up burnable fuel, whether that be solid fuel, wood, or coal, or anything else. I don't really have the math for it, but I doubt it uses more than 50 coal per trip at most, which should contain 8k ore. And you should be sending several trains on the same stretch of track too.


Last thing is, you can ride the train, meaning you don't have to walk the distance, and it is faster than something like 6 exoskeleton equipment.

Belts cost more, but no upkeep, and simple. However, setting it up is tedious, and having to have 4 or 8 lanes of belts is honestly ugly.
Trains cost less, but need fuel, and have massive potential throughput.


my math is probably not entirely right thoughput wise. I only guessed as exactly how fast the train loads and unloads, assuming a few numbers. Pretty sure stack inserters are 12 per swing, and 2 swings per second, which should add up. Also that assumes you are always loading and unloading, which is inaccurate. And you can have more or less train cars.

That said, trains are far easier to build and use now, so experiment.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18903
Apprently there are other discussions on this subject. Not surprising. Probably should have searched and pointed instead of mathing.

[Kim Jong Ugly]

Thanks for the input man, im honestly fishing for good opinions to share with my buddy to maybe change his opinion on them, and you just gave me a bunch more ammo for my discussion!!

[Killavirus]

Trains are great at killing you unexpectedly.
You get really pissed off, but fall in love with your complicated mess that only occasionally breaks down

Always love trains

[garath]

In my first six games or so, I never built a single train because I could just as easily get all the resources I needed via conveyor belt. Then, I installed the RSO mod. This mod alters the resource allocation so that your first iron, copper, coal, stone expansions are far enough away that trains are pretty much a necessity. In addition, it modifies the "richness" of the fields the further you go out. Since installing the RSO mod, my enjoyment of the game has at least doubled. Highly recommended!

In 0.12 and without the RSO mod, I would tend to agree with your friend that trains are useless when you can get all the resources you need via conveyor belts.

[5thHorseman]

"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway."
-Andrew S. Tanenbaum

Or here, never underestimate the throughput of a train full of ore hurtling across your map.

Thanks Ranakastrasz for the math. I've though of doing it before and now I don't have to

[Ranakastrasz]

I doubt it was very good math. I made up some numbers, and did a lot of educated guesses. Comparing belts and trains is really difficult since there are way too many factors, some of which are fuzzy or highly variable. But still, glad to help.

Also, Trains are more fun. Good replacement for belts, AND Chests.

Wagons

Oh wait, wrong argument. Still fun.

[OdinYggd]

Trains are super useful! Especially once you go beyond a hundred tiles or so.

You can easily make a train to carry multiple items in each direction with just a little cleverness of inserters and combinators at the endpoints. For instance my iron ore train right now also carries 4 stacks of coal to refuel the locomotive at the iron station where there is no coal to use, carries repair packs so that the constructor bots maintaining the iron station against biter attacks never ever run out, and even carries spare logi and constructor bots to replace any that are damaged and allow the network to automatically grow in response to stresses and demand changes.

On a previous save, I made a general supply train that would not only bring ores and oil back to my factory- but would carry plates, circuit boards, and even entire components out to remote stations so that they had the supplies they needed to defend themselves against all odds.

Yes you can do the same thing with belts, but it requires two belts to handle bidirectional traffic, and much more complexity at the endpoints in controlling what is on the belt when and how it is separated again. With trains, you use the middle mouse button to reserve slots for what you want so you can put multiple goods on a car, and then it is as simple as setting up inserters and boxes to add or remove what you please.

[ssilk]

https://wiki.factorio.com/index.php?tit ... ch_case%3F

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Trains rule if you are in a long game for certain, especially after the patch. You can just hit the train button and summons them to the nearest station. I have a train full of military goods and a train full of building goods on call at all times. I ride around in the building train and call in a wagon load of weaponry if I need to do a bit of clearing. If building supplies are a bit low i send the train home to replenish and carry on building then call it back.

Go trains!